Hymnals or no?

The discussion in Jimmy's current thread on the Congregationalist hymnals (http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20540) was interesting to me, not just because of the subject, but also because it involved both sides of the theological divide. I don't want to siphon off the discussion over there, but wanted to see what the numbers looked like on this issue.

I prefer the hymnals myself.

 

I vote FOR hymnals

 

Re: I vote FOR hymnals

Me, too... though I'm not opposed to music from other sources under certain circumstances. But, generally, yes... I prefer the hymnals... as was probably pretty obvious from my posting the thread to which you refer.

Me, too. So that makes three of us, so far. Yet as I write this, the count is 2 to 2. If all three of us actually voted (as opposed to merely stating how we vote in a post), then it should, at this writing, be 3 to 2 for hymnals.

Dave, did you start the thread/poll but not actually vote in it? Or, mcdirector, did you voice your vote in a post, but not actually vote? I'm confused.

 

I'm on vacation visiting the lovely city of Richmond VA and apparently my brain isn't functioning completely.

SO, I voted in the post and not in the poll. I will fix that NOW.

 

Cool, and now I can see the results of the poll I did not see to begin with.

 

Ain't technology somethin'!

 

Thank you for the poll and continuing the discussion.

I voted hymnals but I am not opposed to a bulletin insert of a song or two every now and then and I am not opposed to some praise hymns every now and then.

My key point in the other discussion is that much contemporary music and worship services don't seem to be reverent.

 

I take the opposing view, I certianly have no problems with the hymnal, but given a choice, I prefer the praise choruses.

 

You're such an iconoclast!

Seriously, how are things at GSST these days?

How far are you from Maple Hill? I candidated at the Congregational church there about 10 year's ago. It was a strange situation. I won the vote but the Baptist minister who was serving as interim decided he wanted the job permanently which was against the by-laws.

However, he managed to have that particular by-law suspended and challenged me. I didn't get the 2/3 majority but came within a whisker. It all worked out, however, we got to visit a state I had never been too, visited the Menninger Clinic, and made some friends, all expenses paid.

 

I like a lot of those traditional hymns, but I really love many of the praise choruses. I voted with Kansasbaptist on this one.

 

Going great, finished my thesis about 3 weeks ago, will have my Master's next month when they are awarded. Started working on the DRS this month and so far, so good.

I thought I was just going to take time off, but I in some sort of weird way, I really enjoy the school work. The learning makes me a better preacher/teacher and the degree gives me a goal to work toward.

I am hopeful GSST keeps working to upgrade their reputation, I have enjoyed my studies there, they certainly serve my purpose, and it is run by good men.

Not too far, about 3 or so hours. I think Maple Hill is north of Topeka and I am in central Kansas about 50 miles from the border. Bel Aire is a little town just north of Wichita.

Those crazy Baptist ministers, what can you do with them!

 

One of continuing one's education's coolest things, isn't it.

Um... wait a minute. Ho' da' fone. Does "GSST" mean Golden State School of Theology? 'Cause if it does, isn't its reputation just about the least of its infirmities?

I mean... don't get me wrong, kansasbaptist, I'm not tryin' to take pot shots at where you're goin' to school. In fact, Golden State (if that's what "GSST" means) has caught my attention and interest on more than one occasion. And it's not all that geographically far from me... in fact, I've toyed with driving over there just on a lark and checking it out. So I'm not down on GSST, really. But I thought that it was, in addition to being unaccredited (which, by itself, of course, isn't necessarily a bad thing... though I realize that FWD would certainly disagree), it was also somewhat lacking in rigor. The darned SEARCH function doesn't work right, so I won't even try to find the threads, but I thought I remembered reading that GSST just sort of made one read a chapter in something -- sometimes not even a text but, rather, just a pamphlet or booklet -- and then just asked some simple, fundamental, end-of-chapter-review-type questions and that was pretty much it. I mean... look, maybe that's an oversimplification, but I thought I remembered reading that about GSST. Or am I mixing it up with someplace else?

And if I'm not mixing it up with someplace else, but GSST has really beefed things up and is now more rigorous since I did read those things, then I'd sure like to know about it. I mean... do tell. If GSST suddenly became objectively credible, despite its lack of accreditation, I think that would be a good thing; and I, too, would rejoice.

Do I have it wrong? What's the real story?

Can't live with 'em; can't kill 'em.

(Just yankin' yer chain, kans... seriously... I'm just kiddin' around.)

 

As a graduate of GSST (Golden State School of Theology) who earned the M.Div. in Christian Counseling last year, I can attest some of your perceptions are totally and thoroughly inaccurate.

I did not read pamphlets or pieces of literature. I had to read books, several for each course. I had to write research papers for each course of at least 15-20 pages in length using APA standards.

The books I had to read and study were fairly recent and very up to date regarding theories and constructs of counseling--marriage and family, addictions, grief and loss, etc.

On several ocassions my papers were returned saying I needed more research and more depth. Thus, the work was challenging.

I cannot attest to other programs but I can attest to the counseling program. I also took some Greek and Hebrew courses to refresh my language skills.

The only complaint I had against GSST was the misleading information I received about their becoming accredited by DETC. I already had one theological master's from an unaccredited school so I certainly didn't need another. The only reason I enrolled was based on the possible impending DETC accreditation.

I am glad, however, I "went," as I did refresh my language skills and I learned about the latest research in the counseling field.

GSST is in the process of attaining national accreditation. This would be good.

 

I will give you my take on GSST (Golden State School of Theology).

The amount of work is extensive, but some of it is simple regurgitation of information in the texts. Each class I took in my graduate studies consisted of answering hundreds of questions (again not extremely challenging), but each text chapter required a paper at the end of the chapter on a pre-selected topic.

For example "explain how the author's understanding of history is at odds with what the Bible teaches with regard to the beginnings of history and explain also how an understanding of secular ideas can help a Christian grow in his/her faith."

Every class required a minimum 20 page term paper and an addtional 500 pages of reading on the subject. I think some folks download the study guides, look at questions asked concerning the text (which are intended to be answered as your reading) and assume that is requirement. Simply not true.

Every writing assignment was returned with comments, come requiring rework, although, I believe in some cases they could challenge the students more thouroghly.

All that said, I believe it was Janko who accurately challenged that volume of work does not equate to quality of work. Since this is the only graduate program I have completed, I cannot comment from experience, but a close friend of mine attended Johnson Bible College (NT Studies) and the work appeared to be very similar to GSST.

When I spoke of reputation, this is exactly what I was talking about. I have many discussions with folks here about GSST and have always been honest about my experiences. I understand the reservations people have (and I at times have had them too). But my reservations have never had anything to do with the rigor of the program.

In fact there is a thread where that very thing was discussed and for the most part, it appeared that most MBS, MMIN programs were very similar.

When I spoke about upgrading their reputation, this is exactly what I meant. Some people find it acceptable, some find it appalling.

The program works for me, I find it challenging, I'm learning much, and I didn't have to mortgage my house to pay for it.

 

Good post, Kansas Baptist and thanks for responding to my other post.

The work at GSST was on par with the work at CCHS.

FLET surpasses them both.

What does this mean? Who knows?

It may mean Harvard Divinity School surpasses Earlham School of Religion or any accredited school in the Restoration Movement.

It could mean Yale Divinity surpasses Brite Divinity School.

Bottom line, I think, is that each school is unique and there will always be another school that is either superior or inferior to it, accredited and unaccredited.

 

Apologies to everyone for diverting the subject of this thread. If anyone wants to discuss GSST we can start a new thread, I will be more than happy to answer any questions.

 

Wow! The vote is getting close. Come on now, where are all the traditionalists?

Don't think new thread is needed, Kansas Baptist, GSST has actually been discussed ad infinitum and I don't think anyone's views or perspectives have been or will be changed.

By the way, are you a Southern, American, Independent, Six-Principle, General, Regular, Primitive, Free-Will, National, etc., Baptist?

 

Southern Baptist.

 

How many Baptists....?

How many Southern Baptists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

Answer - One hundred and nine.
Seven on the Lightbulb Task Force Sub-committee,
who report to the twelve on the Lightbulb Task
Force, appointed by the fifteen on the Trustee
Board. Their recommendation is reviewed by the
Finance Executive Committee of five, who place it
on the agenda of the eighteen-member Finance
Committee. If they approve, they bring a motion to
the twenty-seven Member church Board, who
appoint another twelve-member review committee.
If they recommend that the Church Board proceed,
a resolution is brought to the Congregational
Business Meeting. They appoint another
eight-member review committee. If their report to
the next Congregational Business Meeting supports
the changing of a lightbulb, and the Congregation
votes in favor, the responsibility to carry out the
lightbulb change is passed on to the Trustee Board,
who in turn appoint a seven-member committee to
find the best price in new lightbulbs. Their
recommendation of which hardware is the best buy
must then be reviewed by the
twenty-three-member Ethics Committee to make
certain that this hardware store has no connection
to Disneyland. They report back to the Trustee
Board who then commissions the Trustee in charge
of the Janitor to ask him to make the change. By
then the janitor discovers that one more lightbulb
has burned out.