Prestigious Not-RA Degrees

I don't want to hijack Nosborne's law professor's thread, so I'm starting a new thread to discuss the most prestigious American non-RA schools.

Yeah. Hastings is accredited by the ABA, but I was very surprised to discover that it isn't regionally accredited. Hastings is a rather odd part of the University of California system, not a UC campus in its own right, but not part of any other UC campus either. It just kind of floats around out there on its own.

This is the only non-RA state university that I know of, apart from a few brand new campuses like UC Merced. Nobody can accuse Hastings of being new, it is California's oldest law school, founded in 1878.

http://www.uchastings.edu

Wow, Caldog! You just shocked me!! I've been aware of Rockefeller U. for years, but I always just assumed that it was RA. But it doesn't appear in the CHEA directory and the Middle States Association doesn't list it. Thats simply amazing!

Rockefeller has a student-faculty ratio that even USNews would like:

71 heads of laboratories
186 research and clinical scientists
355 postdoctoral investigators
1,050 support staff
154 Ph.D. students
46 M.D.-Ph.D. students
887 alumni

And it seems to get its share of recognition:

In its history, Rockefeller has been associated with 23 Nobel laureates and 19 Lasker Award recipients. Five faculty members have been named MacArthur Fellows and 12 have garnered the National Medal of Science, the highest science award given by the United States. And, 33 Rockefeller faculty are elected members of the National Academy of Sciences.

http://www.rockefeller.edu/about.php

This would have to be the absolute undisputed star non-RA university in the United States. (Eat your heart out, Bob Jones.)

Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory on Long Island is another scientific powerhouse, legendary in molecular biology: Four Nobel Prizes and its long-time President was James Watson of 'Watson and Crick' DNA fame. CSHL has been a research institution for 100 years, but it's only been awarding degrees for a short time, so it might belong in the new school class. Right now it's only NY Regents approved.

http://www.cshl.edu

My favorite CA-approved school is the National Test Pilot School in Mojave CA. (The same dusty desert airport where Burt Rutan designed, built and flew his do-it-yourself manned spaceship.) NTPS trains US and foreign civil and military clients (the Danes traded six supersonic jets to NTPS in exchange for free training for the Danish airforce)... when a bunch of Pakistani airforce pilots showed up the US government shut NTPS down temporarily as a security risk. Now the spooks sign off on foreign student applications. NTPS teaches contract courses for NASA and is tight with the FAA (which essentially is the accreditor of a school like this). It's not exactly cheap. Their Performance and Flying Qualities Professional Course_(26 weeks) costs $320,000/pilot. (Harvard can't get that kind of tuition.) Of course, NTPS students have their employers (governments and aerospace firms) picking up the tab.

http://www.ntps.edu

NTPS is talking to WASC, so they may become a candidate one of these days.

 

Grand Canyon University says there's no such thing.

See: http://www.gcu.edu/education-news/online-degrees/24-topten.html

 

Rockefeller is accredited by NY State. NY is the only state that is a recognized accreditor.

 

Nonsense. I get emails and mailings every day telling me that there are LOTS of prestigeous, unaccredited Universities out there, willing to grant me the academic recognition my distinguished life and career deserve (for a small fee).

 

"RockU" is, indeed, an almost unequalled, first-rate, top-notch, world-class research university (and medical center) in NYC, "the city that never sleeps."

In the 80's, I worked at Rockefeller University (and Hospital) under Dr. Lynette Benjamin, one of the world's leading experts (& researcher/physician) on sickle cell disease, pain management, and emergency medical services.

It may interest all the good folks here at DI to know that many eminent professors and administrators at Rockefeller University (at the time) used to feel that regional accreditation (the "gold" standard of US higher education accreditation) was NOT stringent enough!

They used to discuss and propound the (unheard of notion, at the time) that certain existing RA rules and requirements on academic quality measurements and faculty hiring needed to be strengthened by a factor of 10! I kid you not.

Now, you do agree with that general assessment (today!), do you not?

Why else would certain notorious non-RA, non-NA, no-nothing unaccredited entities be emailing our good pal, nosborne48, telling him that he can attain the prestige he has always craved with one of their UA, 48-minute, or 48-hour (or maybe, 48-day or 48-week) bachelors', masters', or doctoral degrees?



Thanks.

 

Just for you Gregg, here's the Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary in Berkeley. It's a high profile seminary operated by the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. PLTS is CA-approved to offer three masters degrees with religious titles on its own: M. Christian Ministry, M. Div, and M. Theological Studies. (Doing that only requires a religious exemption.) But PLTS is accredited by ATS, so there's no need to worry. It isn't RA though.

http://www.plts.edu

In addition to offering its own degrees to aspiring Lutheran clergymen, PLTS is a member of the Graduate Theological Union (not 'foundation') and participates in GTU programs like the Ph.D. in History and Cultural Studies of Religions. The GTU coalition consists of a whole bunch of seminaries pooling their resources and offering joint degrees. The GTU consortium, despite being kind of virtual, is soundly RA, accredited by WASC.

http://www.gtu.edu

More ATS but not-RA seminaries in the GTU cluster include:

American Baptist Seminary of the West

http://www.absw.edu

Starr King School of Ministry

http://www.sksm.edu

 

To heck with the DBA

I am going to the NTPS.......

 

Bill,

Down here in San Diego we have 2 non RA but board accredited schools that turn out many a grad. Cal Western Law School and the New School of Architecture are pretty prominent on the local scene. New School was for many years not even NAAB accredited but still graduated many local architects as this is not a licensure requirement in Calif.

You may find interesting that I have friend at Cal Western who when deciding on a law school simply refused to even consider another RA/ABA local law school because as she said "I'll never get a job because they have a terrible reputation".

Dan

 

California Western Law School is ABA accredited. Stand alone law schools are eligible to participate in federal financial aid programs on the basis of ABA accreditation alone.

 

Well, it's not really the PRESTIGE I crave; it's BIG MONEY a college degree can bring me!

 

Gee. I never even heard of PLTS or GTU. (Not!)

And a stab at my GTF... um... well... campaign, I suppose some might call it (though that's not my intent). Nicely played.

Here's the thing: When you wanted to talk about "prestigious" but not RA, I made a definite mental note not to confuse "presitigious" with merely "legitimate" or "credible." I think most of us can name institutions that aren't RA but which are, nevertheless, credible and/or legitimate. In addition to not being RA, some of them may not even be accredited by anyone. Heck, look at GTF, for example! [zing]

My point is, as we're listing institutions, I think we should stick with what "prestigious" really means and confine ourselves to non-RA schools that, nevertheless, have some objective, genuine, everyone-pretty-much-agrees prestige in the universe.

At least some institutions listed so far in this thread I would categorize as at the very least credible and/or legitimate; but, at the most, quite fine, very good, reputable, of high quality, something of which to be proud... stuff like that, but not "prestigious." I mean, shouldn't a "prestigious" institution be the envy of its peers? No, strike that. Shouldn't a "prestigious" institution actually not have alot of peers, and be the envy of pretty much everyone else?

Just askin'.

 

What's prestigious?

According to the latest US News rankings, UC Hastings is among the top 40 law schools in the US (tied for 39th). Looks like it would be in the top 15 nationwide among public law schools.

OK, so maybe that's not "prestigious" enough. So how about Rockefeller U? The latest US News rankings place RockU at Number 8 nationwide among graduate schools in the biological sciences. That's behind Stanford, Harvard, MIT, Berkeley, Caltech, Johns Hopkins, and UCSF. But it's ahead of pretty much everyone else, including Princeton and Yale.

But note that RockU maintains a high national ranking despite competing with much larger schools: its total enrollment is only about 150 students. Because of its small size, RockU may actually be more selective than the other top-ranked institutions. RockU degrees are not common, and it would definitely be fair to categorize them as "prestigious" in the scientific community.

Just replyin'.

 

Right on!

 

Re: What's prestigious?

Oxpecker said that Rockefeller was accredited by NY State. It hardly belongs on this list.

marilynd

 

Re: Re: What's prestigious?

But why not?

1. The title of this thread is "Prestigious Not-RA Degrees".

2. RockU is prestigious (OK, possibly not prestigious enough for DesElms).

3. RockU is located in New York State, but is not regionally accredited by the Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools.

Given these points, it is reasonable to conclude that RockU is a prestigious non-RA institution, and should be listed as such.

Yes, RockU is state-accredited, and in New York (unlike, say, Wyoming or Alabama), state accreditation may actually be a meaningful standard. But nonetheless, RockU is not regionally accredited, and that is very unusual (probably unique) for such a highly regarded institution.

 

I my first post, I named four schools.

Hastings. CalDog already addressed this one. I'll just add that as the oldest law school in California and the largest single source of California judges (by a 3-1 margin over #2), it's pretty prominent in the state scheme of things.

Rockefeller U. CalDog tells us that USNews ranks it #8 in the US for biological sciences. The many awards and research accomplishments tell the same story.

Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory. Internationally famous for the Cold Spring Harbor Symposia. Iconic names in molecular biology have been associated with CSHL, some winning Nobel Prizes for work done there. Here's the impressive historical account. (I'm inclined to think that if it results in a Nobel Prize, then it's probably prestigious by definition.)

National Test Pilot School. The only civilian test pilot school in the world recognized by the Society of Experimental Test Pilots. Its staff have won numerous industry awards. Students come from around the world to study here. NTPS graduates include the commander of the Republic of Korea AF's flight test squadron and the first man to fly the new T-50 Golden Eagle, the commander of the Australian RAAF's Aircraft Research and Development Unit, the Director of Flight Operations and Chief Pilot of Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation, the Maritime Helicopter Program Qualification Team Lead at General Dynamics Canada (the DND is currently introducing new naval helicopters), and the Chief Test Pilot of Israeli Aircraft Industries. It may be a niche subject, but this school is very prominent in it.

 

CSHL is certainly prestigious, though its prestige doesn't really derive from the graduate school (which has operated only for about a decade).

As with Rockefeller, the CSHL Watson School has US DoE-recognized accreditation (since 1998) through NY State Board of Regents. But, as Bill points out, it's not regionally accredited.

Another graduate school accredited by New York is GCUU, now independent of Union College.

 

Re: Re: Re: What's prestigious?

 

more like hot than cold

For months I have been reading this board.........we can conclude that there is NOTHING like RA.........nothing. Now, how can it be to say that Rockerfella University is MORE like RA than it is NA? No. This cannot be, years and years of saying RA is RA and while NA is nice, it's not RA.

 

Hi, Oxpecker. I think that you make a very important point.

CSHL has been existence in one form or another since 1890. It's been a leader in molecular genetics since the 1940's. So when it finally rolled out its own Ph.D. program a few years ago, the place already had a full head of steam.

It doesn't matter a whole lot that its degrees are NY-Regents approved. Everybody in the biological sciences is already familiar with the place. They already know its reputation. When its graduates go out and look for jobs, that's what's going to get them hired.

We saw much the same thing with City of Hope in California. While not quite as prestigious as CSHL, CoH was a research hospital with its own decades-long record of accomplishment in molecular biology, including some of the basic discoveries that made the biotech industry possible. So when it unveiled its Ph.D. program, it clearly wasn't the CA-approval that made it credible. (CoH was quickly accredited by WASC.)

National Test Pilot School fits the same pattern. It's been teaching non-degree professional programs for decades and only rolled out its masters in flight test engineering a short while ago. (It's currently in talks with WASC.)

I think that these kind of schools succeed so impressively because they they can show people something. They've spent long years building their reputations. They've got accomplishments that they can point to. Peers and colleagues are already familiar with them and with what they are doing. That's how their prestige originated.

Compare that to non-RA accreditors suddenly creating 'doctoral pilots' and expecting everyone to automatically respect them because the accreditor boasts government/CHEA recognition. That's completely backwards.

Non-RA accreditors that hope to expand their profile probably should encourage their more ambitious members to create some research units or something. Schools should probably start accomplishing something and building their reputations before they unveil their advanced degree programs.