Questions for current Army personnel on the board

I have a question for those in the Military, specifically the Army.

I have a punk of a 19 year old Nephew who is out of control. Despite having the typical "nuclear" family (my sister one of the few religious people in the family), he has chosen the path of stupidity and self-indulgence. He is doing drugs (I had to point that out to my sister - she apparently didn't know how to spot someone under the influence) and is very much the follower. He is however, a very smart kid who has an IQ of around 150 (measured in school) and is very creative. Unfortunately, he dropped out of HS and only has a GED.

I think he needs an environment where he is told what to do without options. (In other words, a little kick ass). I would hate the see the kid screw up his life and go to jail.

My question is, although I would rather have him go into the AF or Navy, I don't think they take GED's, and their drug policy is pretty stringent. I think he would do well in the Army although I would like him to get into an MOS that was actually applicable to the outside world (tank driver or infantry, while patriotic, isn't a marketable skill- of course LE is out of the question). What types of jobs would be available? (electronics, mechanics, journalists, etc) -- and how stringent is the Army with their drug policy. I know he smokes weed and if he is a typical punk, he has done ecstasy.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
W.

 

Sorry...

I am retired but that doesn't mean I can't read the Army Times like anyone else still active. Simply being in the Army gives one no greater insight as to getting in now. As a past reenlistment NCO here is the real deal.

If he is into drugs the Army won't take him either. It is a myth that the Army will take anyone. Past drug use can be waived, however, he will be required to take a urinalysis and a current drug user will fail.

Contrary to popular belief, the Army is not a place for people unable to control their own life. They can take people without direction but people without control are neither needed nor desired. They can take people with a past record that have turned their life around but that does not appear to be the case here. I entered the Army in the 70's when people could take it or jail those guys inevitably were a problem. A person currently in trouble is a risk they cannot take.

Hate to sound harsh but reality hurts sometimes....

 

Thanks DTech. I was actually looking for an informed opinion (which I received from you) and not answers from the peanut gallery.

I too was in the military (Navy) starting in 1980. Things were much different then - drug use was almost a given (not many people from my side of the tracks didn't at least experiment). I never did it while I was in the service. (what time? - I was already working 18 hours a day!)

Cheers and thanks
W.

 

GED

I am no longer in the military. However I do know that all services will accept the GED, since it is seen as the equivalent to a high school diploma. I think that it shows that the person holding the GED is willing to turn their life around or at least will commit to improving their life even though they did not complete high school. The drug use is the big issue, as stated in the previous response. A current recruit can not fail the pre-enlistment drug test for any service. Now as far as career options go, that depends totally on the recruits ASVAB score, the better the score the more choices. Each service offers career fields that are very useful in civilian life, for instance a truck mechanic in the Army ends up with the same skills as a truck mechanic in the Air Force. A major difference would be the quality of life, without a doubt the Air Force has the best standard of living of all services (barracks, food, Air Force community college, etc). However at this time it might be easier to receive a waiver (past drug usage, minor law infractions, etc) from the Army then it would be from the Air Force. Also as noted the armed services can be a good place for someone who desires to turn their life around to learn self discipline, build self esteem and self respect but that depends more on the individual desire to do so then the fact of being in the service. I would point to the fact that the military has prisons where service members that commit crimes (theft, rape, murder, etc) are incarcerated as a proof point that just being in the service is not enough to turn a life around.

I do wish you and your nephew luck.

Mike

 

No problem...

The drug test can be calibrated for how far back it can read. Last I remember, they tested 90 days back for drugs.

On a side note, I do not believe in drug use either and I tend to expect a lot from my own children in regards to getting an education and/or a job, etc. However, if the limits of what this young man has done is drugs (no dealing mind you) and failure to get gainful employment he could be much, much worse. Maybe he will wake up one day....

 

Determine if he has any interest in joining the military.

 

Clarification

In reading my first response I think I need to point out that all services will accept the GED, but all services do place additional limits on GED holders. This includes having a higher ASVAB score and only a certain percentage of recruits can hold GEDs.

Mike

 

Re: Re: Questions for current Army personnel on the board

One of his step-father's colleagues spent 15 years in the Army and I think has convinced the little shit that he needs to get his crap together or end up dead (or in jail - not sure which is worse). I posted this to find out what the drug use restriction were nowadays. It didn't seem to be that big of a deal in the late 70's, early 80's (as a friend was an extensive drug user in HS but was accepted into the Advanced Electronics program in the Navy - got out 8 years later as a ET1). Personally, I wouldn't want to work with a drug user either then, or especially now (I work with gases and chemicals which will kill you in less than a minute).

I suspect he will get a high ASVAB score. I was a C student from the streets of east O-town and got such a high score they wanted me to go nuclear (not for me). All in all, I think the ASVAB test was pretty easy (at least for me). Suffice to say, I was very surprised that I scored so high without any apparent effort on my part.

 

I was in the Navy from 1990-98 and the policy then, and I think now, is Zero Tolerance. If a sailor "pops positive" for drugs on a urinalysis test just once- he's out. No second chances for anyone. I'm almost certain that this is the policy of all of the US armed forces. So your nephew would not only have to be clean to join, he'd have to stay clean as well.

Good luck to him, and to you.

 

When I was in the Army, anyone E-4 and under that tested positive would get one chance at rehab, a second positive meant immediate discharge. Anyone E-5 and above was zero tolerance, one positive and you were gone.

 

The military isn't reform school. The days of dumping malcontents into the military died with the draft. People like the one you describe have very little chance of making it, even if they're accepted. This individual might make it, but the consequences of failure have to be weighed, too.

Ultimately, this person's success in the military will be up to him. Just like the decision to enter. Perhaps it is wisest to inform, even persuade, but to refrain from deciding. It doesn't work anyway.

Good luck.

 

GED and the military

As I recall, some services always accepted GED at some levels. However, back in the better days of recruiting there was a move to limit accessions by GED recipients to almost zero. As I remember, a couple of congressman claimed this was discriminatory to those of some backgrounds who for whatever reason may not of finished high school. They got together and got some legislation passed to mandate that all services allow GED's at some level.

I just had lunch with my daughter who is home on leave from the USAF serving as a recruiters assistance. She was in fact discussing just this subject. Apparently, there was a a guy in the office this morning with a GED and a pretty high ASVAB in the that was hesitant about commiting. The high ASVAB did give him a leg up on other GED holders with lesser scores. However, the recruiter bluntly told him they had 3 GED allocation is the entire downstate area of Illinois (and I think most of Missouri as well) so he had to make up his mind ASAP. One could write this off as recruiter talk but this particular office made its annual mission by April so they aren't under any pressure to put boots on the flightline so to speak.

Full disclosure, I was a GED entry into the Army. It was what I always wanted to do so when I got bored with high school I quit and went into the service. Don't regret it really seing as by the time my class graduated from high school I already had a year of college between CLEP and ACE credits. The actual day they graduated I was on a beach in Puerto Rico so no I didn't miss much

 

I was an undisciplined person. I went to DeVry and dropped out after six months. I was a regular at Studio 54 (catch the movie 54) in Manhattan as well as many other clubs like the Limelight, Xenon’s, Palladium, etc. This was when I was 15-20 years old. Five years of partying.

Parties lasted one or two days. I was a bit on the wild side. I joined the Army Reserve because I though I would end up dead or in great trouble if I continued on my path. That was almost twenty years ago.

The Army was the best thing that ever happened to me. I changed a lot about my views and values. It was a GOOD THING. I went to the Army Biomed School and I was able to get a job when I got out. I still work in the field and I love it. Here is the link - http://www.cs.amedd.army.mil/bmet/basic_course.htm

It is a hard school and the salaries when you get out of the school can range from 20-30K. Not bad for just out of school. Personally, I would not join the Army right now unless he wants to go to Iraq. I would look at the Coast Guard. Just my opinion.

As far as drugs, don't do them any more. It is that simple. I would stop doing drugs and wait 60-90 days before the drug test.

Good luck.

 

By the way, to get into the biomed school you need a high ASVAB score - 110 I think. It is a hard school and the failure rate was about 40%.

 

Re: GED and the military

Hello DTech,

I wonder if you or your daughter are familiar with second chance programs like Lincoln's Challenge. LC IIRC is run by the Illinois Guard at the old Rantoul AFB. Might these sorts of programs provide an improved chance for entry?

David

 

Look for a connection.

Some people resent those who act too smart for the room. This kid sounds like maybe he actually is; like he's a kid who needed his parents to keep him on track and provide that kinds of challenges that school could not, starting around 13 years (or longer) ago. It's a little late now. Probably not too late, mind you... but close.

Unless whatever it is actually challenges him; and unless he can see the point of it and what's in it for him, don't count on that to actually work.

You mean even more of a kick in the ass than he already thinks life has given him?

Just keep thinking that all he needs is to be landed on like an old building and you'll just about guarantee that outcome.

Yeah. Stop thinking of him as a horse that needs to be broken (in this case, by a drill sergeant... whose IQ, most likely, will be 40 points below his). Since I've introduced the horse metaphor, I suggest you read-up on how the approach of a "horse whisperer" differs from the more forceful, violent and traditional methods of horse breaking, and then try to figure out and apply the human analogue. I'm serious. The military approach, trust me, is the wrong approach in this case. Mark my words.

 

I am very familiar with them....

My nephew and a close friend's son both went through Lincoln's Challenge and yes they have extra opportunity to join the service. I think they are given a separate category from GED. I think they call it an alternate high school credential or something. It is between the GED and a diploma. However, if they have a criminal record it is still looked at. Neither of them did when they went through but others did and it is looked at just as if they weren't in the program. I am sure, hoever, the program was a plus in their favor.

 

Re: Re: Questions for current Army personnel on the board

Have you ever been in the military? I would bet not since you have no clue what you are talking about. Civilians cannot understand what it is to be a soldier and shouldn't espouse themselves as experts unless they have some experience with it.

The military does not "break" someone. It is the absolute last thing a soldier needs to be is "broken". The military challenges you. A soldier will have more responsibility thrown on him/her than people twice his/her age and needs to make strong firm decisions. I often had to send 19 year olds out alone to make life or death decisons on their own. No civilian organizations comes close to that type of responsibility. A "broken" person is incapable of making such decisions. The US military's greatest strength is its soldiers. Soldiers capable of carrying without their leaders if they have to. They are an honor and at the same time a great challenge to lead.

I entered the military with scores in the 99% and was almost always way "book" smarter than my superiors and/or peers. I hav rarely met any civilian for that matter as "smart" as i am. However, book smarts don't always equate to competence when it comes to leading troops or civilians. In fact, acting smarter than everyone in the room is a sure way to fail both in the military and in business, ask Al Gore.

I am WAY more proud of my ability to get a disparate group of soldier's through a mission than I was ever of my ability to get a 1400+ score on my SAT or a 138 on my ASVAB.

 

Of course I knew my advice would provoke a rash of military apologia. Do not assume that I am anti-military, sir; or that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Even taking your thoughtful (albeit predictable) words into account, I stand by what I wrote here: The military approach, trust me, is the wrong approach in this case. Mark my words.

 

same

Why would the military be the wrong approach? I can think of thousands of vets that would disagree. As far as the GED goes, I believe it will suffice, But taking one course at a community college would solidify it, along with passing service tests. Some community colleges either accept GED's or allow entrance, on a probationary basis, contingent upon grades.

The military requires trust, honesty, sense of duty and a clear head. If the kid is a dopper, forget it. You must trust your buddy to cover your 6. Unfortunately, most civilians look at the service as a social experiment. MARK MY WORDS, the military exists to maintain peace, by the threat or use of FORCE, not expand the awareness of perceived individual problems.

We don't live in a gentle, kind, caring country, much less the world. Our military is voluntary. I think this is wrong. Anyone, enjoying the opportunity of living here, unless physically/mentally unable, should be required to serve. If they are pacifists, they can work in support. Cook, teach, anything other than combat. But they would work. There is no free lunch.

By doing this, they will learn responsibility, and the bizzar concept of being part of more, than themselves. If this offends their sensibilities, prison may be more to their liking. The whiners only have rights because someone forfeited theirs.

Soldiers, cops, firefighters protect us. I have never seen someone call a wordsmith when in danger. But they are first to complain, when inconvenienced. If you believe your rights are being sacrificed to prevent hostile acts, find another country willing to protect and care for your self-absorbed, intelligent persona.

MARK MY WORDS, rewarding misbehavior is the single most problematic aspect of our society. A swift swat( on the rear,sans anger, for children) and a swift denial of privlidges, and/ or ass bongo for teens, will work wonders. Along with manual labor.

Perhaps whispering mantras will create a deep sense of guilt, which they can discuss on their cell phones.

If your nephew is very bright, he understands his actions will lead nowhere and may react accordingly. Give him a challenge and see if he is mature enough to follow through. Also arrange to have him visit a jail and see his future home. If the bulb turns on, and he maintains his progress, the service will be the best educational opportunity he will ever have. MARK MY WORDS.