To all Lutherans: gnesio-, semi-, ex-, and wannabes

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by uncle janko, Jun 26, 2005.

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  1. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Happy 475th birthday.
    (Anniversary of the Augsburg Confession)
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    475th Birthday? Is the Wisconson Synod that old? :D
     
  3. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    The Confession was a good idea after the Diet of Worms.
     
  4. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Burp. Yeah.
     
  5. adamsmith

    adamsmith member

    How old is the Westminister Confession?
     
  6. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    You mean the Westminster Confession of Faith, not Westminister.

    359 years (at this writing). It came about in 1646. Luther was at it first, if that's what you're wondering. (Yes, yes... I know... there were others whistling similar tunes before him; but he is recognized as the father of the Reformation. Others of note came later.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2005
  7. adamsmith

    adamsmith member

    Yep, the Westminster Confession of Faith is what I was refering to. Thanks for the date.

    There is no doubt that Luther was the 'father' of the Reformation (we will excuse the pun), but I think Calvin was the more logical and consistent of the reformers in his development of reformed theology.

    But we will join with the Lutherans in their 'birthday' celebrations of their Confession. It sure beats the Papal Bull that was flying around in Luther's day!
     
  8. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    How so?
     
  9. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Re: Re: To all Lutherans: gnesio-, semi-, ex-, and wannabes

    No. It only feels that old. ;) (Just kidding.)

    It was founded in 1850 -- 155 years ago, at this writing -- by John Muehlhaeuser, John Weinmann and William Wrede.
    • "All three had been sent to this country by the Langenberg Mission Society. Muehlhaeuser came to America in 1837 and served a congregation in Rochester, New York. Weinmann and Wrede came to America about a decade later. Muehlhaeuser met them at the dock in New York and eventually followed them to Wisconsin. By 1848 all three were serving in the Milwaukee area. They served people who were pouring into Wisconsin from all over Germany."

      SOURCE: An official WELS Q&A web page
    But, then again, you already knew that, didn't you? ;)
     
  10. Charles

    Charles New Member

    Happy birthday!!!!
     
  11. PhD2B

    PhD2B Dazed and Confused

    Uh, thanks.

    I must be one of those that fell into the category of wannabes - only I didn't know it. ;)

    Where’s the cake?
     
  12. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Re: Re: To all Lutherans: gnesio-, semi-, ex-, and wannabes

    No cake. We're all on a diet of worms, remember?
     
  13. little fauss

    little fauss New Member

    If we're talking Lutheran here, it's not so much the cake, as it is the green bean casserole and green jello with shreds of carrot down basement after Sunday service.
     
  14. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Why... you've been listening to A Prairie Home Companion, you closet liberal you! ;)
     
  15. little fauss

    little fauss New Member

    Absolutely. I love Mr. Keillor. And I've been accused of being a closet liberal--or at least a liberal at heart. And it's probably true. But in my mind, I'm still a conservative. Liberalism comes from the heart, conservatism from the mind. We need each other, if you have one without the other you get a fascist or a communist.

    My knowledge of Lutheranism comes not from Mr. Keillor, but from visits to the inlaws over the years. We attend their church whenever we visit--and we leave the shofar at home. The wife's family is staunchly mainstream Lutheran. Very nice college professors, regular Sunday church-goers, sing in the choir, bring along the casserole (they call it "hot dish" up there in Prairie Home Companion country), do lots of nice community-related things. Nothing wrong with all that, now, but to say that they don't understand us theologically or otherwise would be vast understatement. And were my wife ever to stand up during the service and dance as Miriam or David did to Messiah or the L-rd G-d--which she does at our current place of worship--those Lutherans would likely call 911 after a few moments of awkward silence.
     
  16. Jake_A

    Jake_A New Member

    Uncle, my family and I used to attend the St. Michael Truth Evangelical Lutheran Church.

    Quite a mouthful, but you guessed it ......... it is a synergistic church born out of a not-too-distant merger of two fine and like-souled churches, St. Michael Lutheran and Truth Evangelical, in some areas of the great state of Maryland).

    So.... do we qualify to join the august celebrations?

    Thanks.

    :)
     
  17. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Be careful, now! Keep talking like that and I'll have to be the one to buy you a beer when/if we should ever happen to meet. ;)

    There are many different kinds of Lutherans. Not all would behave/react as you describe... or even anywhere near it. ELCA Lutherans run the gamut from approaching (but probably not nearly as) conservative as you describe, to just about as left-wing and liberal and open-minded as one can imagine. I'm closer to the latter end of that spectrum than the former... but I'm guessing you already knew that; and even in the ELCA, I'm probably in the minority. But the LC-MS Lutherans are far more conservative. Janko, I think, will attest that WELS Lutherans are also more conservative (though not nearly as insufferable as LC-MS Lutherans); and there are numerous spinoffs -- about a dozen of them, in all, that are of any note, and even more that aren't -- that all pretty much tend to be more conservative than liberal (both theologically and politically)... and, therefore, are far more likely than ELCA Lutherans to behave/react as you describe. That said, and with my luck, the Lutheran church you mention is probably ELCA! Ha! That would be funny.
     
  18. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    I would say, "yes," but I'd recommend that you don't wait 'til August. Heck, it'll be over by then. (Gets a Lerner-like look on his face during an awkward moment of silence.)

    Er... wait... you meant...

    ;)
     
  19. Jake_A

    Jake_A New Member

    Hehe.

    Please stop pulling my leg out of its socket.

    I need all of my available, intact, thunder-thigh-driven running power to keep on running after the likes of DL fakesters, Azad/KW"U"/SR"U" et al.

    I meant..... That's right, I meant "august" celebrations, as in "inspiring awe or admiration; majestic, " not "August" as in "the eighth month of the year in the Gregorian calendar." (Tell me that you did not know that, and I will eat my hat!)

    I am celebrating already!

    Do join in, all here assembled and afar, who subscribe to anything of or relating to Luther or his religious teachings and especially to the doctrine of justification by faith alone.

    Once a Lutheran, always a Lutheran (... am I correct, Uncle J?)

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2005
  20. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    OK. Here is a spectrum (read from left to right, literally and figuratively).

    ELCA...LELCA & EELC....LCMS.................WELS & ELS...CLC, LCR.

    ELCA=Ev. Luth. Church in America (liberal) 5 1/2 M
    LELCA & EELC=Latvian and Estonian churches in US (a bit less liberal) 10K each
    LCMS=Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod (becoming generic evangelical) 2 1/2 M
    WELS=Wisconsin Ev. Luth. Synod (very conservative) 400K
    ELS=Ev. Luth. Synod ("Little Norwegians"; theology same as WELS) 20K
    CLC, LCR=Church of the Lutheran Confession, Luth. Churches of the Reformation (small hard-right groups which left WELS and LCMS) 10K, 5K

    There are also small Pietist Lutheran church bodies very similar to generic evangelicals except for sacramental theology.

    I have kept this as descriptive and non-polemical as I know how.

    Trust me. The "alphabet soup" was much weirder 50 or 100 years ago. As you can see, the overwhelming majority of US Lutherans are either ELCA or LCMS, and a visible minority WELS. The other Lutheran denominations are pretty small--which is not a comment on their value at all.
     

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