Anybody Ever Run Across Fred Phelps?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by little fauss, Jun 21, 2005.

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  1. little fauss

    little fauss New Member

    I had an encounter with a Fred Phelps-led protest in my home town last Sunday. You folks think I'm provocative? You ain't seen nothing.

    The wife and I and the kids were invited to the Presbyterian church a couple blocks away last week. We're not members there, but they were doing a Jewish-themed Vacation Bible School last week, and they invited my wife over to lead Jewish dances for for the week-long proceedings. We're about the closest thing in this small town to Jewish--we're Messianic by practice.

    She was invited to come to the following Sunday service, she and the kids dressed up in ancient Palestinian-Jewish garb, to do a demonstration dance for the service and blow the shofar and such. As we're walking over, we came across this outfit protesting outside the church, holding up signs like "G-d Hates Fags" and "Fag Church" and "Thank G-d for 9/11". They even had a sign with a graphic representation of two men engaging in, well, you know what. Right up there in living color four feet tall for the kids and everyone to see.

    Fascinated, and never one to shrink from a bit of conflict--as some of you must surely know--I walked up to one of the characters holding a couple signs. "What gives, the Bible doesn't say that G-d hates anyone, but for one reference to Esau that must be taken in proper context." Those are about the last words I was able to get in edgewise, at least that this grizzled, bearded, truck stop-looking fellow heard. He told me exactly what I believed, how it was sure to damn me to eternal perdition, and he finished with one of the most remarkable statements I've yet heard: "You'd be better off killin' that baby in yer arms right now than lettin' it believe what you believe." I was holding my youngest son, true, but unfortunately, I'd never really gotten a chance to tell him much of anything that I believed--at least that he heard.

    They also protested a local Southern Baptist church--you read that right, SOUTHERN BAPTIST!--because they were just too soft and mushy on the homosexual issue. The average Southern Baptist makes James Dobson look like Richard Simmons on that issue!

    Boy, I tell you, you better steer clear if he and his entourage ever show up at your church, or one you're visiting.

    Yowzers! :eek:
     
  2. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2005
  3. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    I say good for you! What a nut job!!


    Abner :)
     
  4. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Thanks, DesElms! I think I've just learned more than I'll ever want to know about that worthless embarrassment to the Christian religion!
     
  5. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    And yours truly said on this yere board that Phelps was (and is) a hell-bound heretic, false teacher, denier of the means of grace, 8th commandment breaker, etc., etc.
    Res ipsa loquitur.
     
  6. Jeff Walker

    Jeff Walker New Member

    Living in northeast Kansas, we deal with Phelps all the time (it's just more convenient to picket stuff in our area for them). Everyone here knows who Fred Phelps is. And despite the fact that Kansas is seen as a very "red" state, I've never met anyone who actually agrees with Phelps. Many are definitely against gay marriage. Many probably think gay sex is deviant and guarantees a person a place in hell. Some may even agree that "God hates fags". None that I know of agree with this guys methods or general offensiveness.

    At least they won't admit it.
     
  7. Jeff Walker

    Jeff Walker New Member

    A good indication of the general acceptance of Phelps comes from the Wikipedia article (which is great reading) -

     
  8. qvatlanta

    qvatlanta New Member

    One of the reasons this guy has so much power is that a) he's a lawyer b) he has something like 20 kids who are also all lawyers c) they threaten any local opponents with piles of abusive lawsuits.

    The Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Report always has excellent coverage of extremist movements, and they have a good comprehensive (but not terribly recent) article on the Phelps clan:

    http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=421
     
  9. little fauss

    little fauss New Member

    The lawyer angle is one I didn't know about until I checked into them more. I later looked at their website and noticed that there are about a bajillion lawyers (several of whom have been disbarred for abusive practices) in that church of his--probably more than 50% of the adult members. And the "church" really amounts to nothing more than a few houses near the highway with a common fenced backyard. It's not very big, there aren't very many members, and about everyone who does attend is related to Fred himself.

    Believe-it-or-not, that website casts this outfit in a relatively positive light. It's actually--I know, hard to believe to those who've perused it--reasonable and low key in comparison with an actual encounter with the protesters.

    They had something literally to provoke everyone, from left wing to moderate to right wing. They dragged American flags on the ground and shouted G-d hates America, and they thanked G-d for the terrorism of the Islamic extremists; they said unbelievably vile things about anyone who practiced sex in a manner with which they disapproved, they went far beyond condemning what many would call sin, they flatly stated that G-d hated the sinners, as if they believed He would relish and glorify in the eternal torment of souls. They were so completely over-the-top, so unbelievably hateful, that I just have to wonder if it wasn't, at bottom, a money-making scheme.

    My theory now is that they need money to fund the operation, and they have a problem: the church is merely a collection of family members. If you pass the collection plate, from whom do you collect money? Your own son or daughter or cousin? That's a zero sum game, you can't win it. So what to do for money? Simple: everybody in church who can pass the Bar and run the gauntlet of three years of law school becomes an attorney. They protest funerals and churches and other people minding their own business and push people to the breaking point with conduct that may not even be genuine on their part. As soon as a hapless dupe snaps, they're immediately surrounded by a dozen lawyers and lawsuits are threatened. Many people likely cave under the pressure, and many times the litigation is merely threatened, not actually filed (thus allowing the Phelps attorneys to pass under the radar of the Kansas Board of Professional Conduct). Occasionally, a dupe gets good agressive counsel and fights back, files an ethics complaint, and the Phelps attorney starts down the path to inevitable censure and eventual disbarrment. But it's of no measure, because they're already got a new batch of prospective attorneys (children) waiting for their turn.

    I can't say that the above is factual for sure--I don't wish to libel even such as them--as I have no evidence other than their unimaginably outrageous conduct which seemed calculated solely to provoke, their frequent disbarrment, and the likely dire situation of their finances were they not to find some creative means of financing the operation. But while it's just my horseback opinion, I think it's about as good a theory as any.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2005
  10. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    What that doesn't tell us is the number of eligible voters or if 103,000 is more or less then the usual turnout.
     
  11. little fauss

    little fauss New Member

    Also, it doesn't tell us the motivations of the voters . Many times, people enter the booth with only a halting knowledge of anyone other than who they wish to be their President or perhaps, Senator. Even in primary elections. For other offices, they'll just click along without real knowledge of the candidate (confession, I've done it before--I know, I know, I deserve a swift butt kicking for it). They may click on a name with which they have a vague familiarity over one with which they have none.

    So, the 1998 Democratic voter, wanting so-and-so to be their candidate for senator and so-and-so to be their candidate for representative, comes across "governor", and sees "Fred Phelps". "Phelps, hmmm, yeah, I've heard that name before, now where did I hear it? He must be something-or-other." And about 12% to 14% of them pulled the "Phelps" lever, with no good notion of what they'd just done. I'll bet you that dozens of Democratic homosexuals who were not particularly up on the Democratic ticket for the gubernatorial election in 1998--it was a complete landslide won by the Republican, it was a foregone conclusion, thus no real democratic interest--unwittingly voted for Phelps. Just a guess.

    As for the remaining 1% - 3%, I don't think there's any doubt that a small portion of our population is motivated primarily by hate. The target of the hatred may change given the era or circumstances: Jew, black, Catholic, gay, etc., but the hate vote is always there and expresses itself in tiny but persistent numbers at the polls.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2005
  12. Tom H.

    Tom H. New Member

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2005
  13. RobbCD

    RobbCD New Member

    Oh, now you've gone and done it!

    I see no reason to place the The Honorable Rev. Professor Dr. Chief Alexander Swift Eagle Justice in the same thread as Mr. Phelps.

    Phelps, IMHO, is a malignant hatemonger. Nothing the man does is informative, entertaining or helpful to anyone. The man just makes me angry. :mad:

    On the other hand, ASEJ, with his pope hat, curtain rod and other assorted accessories, brings me nothing but histerical joy. What I wouldn't give to have the nerve to declare that I was Russian Royalty, a Native American Cheif, and that I owned the moon!:D
     
  14. little fauss

    little fauss New Member

    Re: Oh, now you've gone and done it!

    ASEJ makes me giggle inside, like I've just had a few swigs of good champagne. Don't ever change, oh gilded one.
     
  15. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Fred Phelps and my four cats have one thing in common: they're all autotheists. Unfortunately for Mr. Phelps, he's wrong!
     
  16. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Re: Fred Phelps is a Disgrace but He's Not Alone

    Actually, Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris sounds more like a Muslim Jerry Falwell.
     
  17. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    They've all been in your lap? They can all lick themselves?
     
  18. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Never quite thought about it that way! You're a sick puppy, Decimon!
     
  19. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Re: Re: Oh, now you've gone and done it!

    Yeah. What he said.

    Y'know, after mass today somebody said we needed a new curtain rod for some of the drapes and I just cracked up laughing. No way to explain that. None.:p
     

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