Transcripted in toto

What is the reasoning behind the requirement to provide a prospective RA school a transcript from all prior RA schools attended?

Is that a requirement of the regional accreditors?

Does it serve good purpose to be required to transcript all prior RA education but not other accredited and non-accredited education?

 

I think one of the reasons is because when USNY (Regents/Excelsior) started offering the "Credit Bank" service, they offered to exclude failures and other academic embarrassments from the official transcript. By requiring all transcripts, the prospective school ensures they are getting the whole picture, lumps and all.

 

I recall that policy predating Regents College.

Your whole lumpy picture includes years as a LEO. Your situation certainly differs from some rooky officer studying CJ yet your panoramic picture, vis-a-vis the rooky's snapshot, is not transcripted.

 

That's why I typed "USNY", University of the State of New York, which was the pre-Regents/Excelsior name.

I don't have a picture, lumpy or otherwise, since I've never used a credit bank service. You asked why some schools ask for every transcript, and I told you why.

From the website of CSU-Dominguez Hills;

http://www.csudh.edu/hux/admreq.html#admreq

"Compilation-style transcripts (such as those from University of New York Regents, Thomas Edison State College, or similar programs) are not sufficient for evaluation because these schools tend to delete pertinent academic information from the student's records. Therefore, individual transcripts from ALL schools are required. "

 

I'm saying that the practice predated credit banking. But not USNY which goes back to 1784 and applies only to the State of New York.

 

The requirement, generally, is nearly always present and has been around for a long time -- certainly since before there was ever such a thing as "credit banking." And though it is a factor, it doesn't really have all that much to do with the credit banking thing (and/or how credit bank transcripts are often not reliable because they sometimes leave-out certain things).

Rather, the requirement, generally, has to do with the fact that U.S. colleges and universities view and regard one's post-secondary educational experience as something of a tatoo of sorts -- a permanent academic record that, like a criminal record, and warts and all, follows one around for life.

It would seem to defy logic, of course. After all, if one is in one is now in his 50's, for example, and wishes to return to school; and, moreover, is willing to begin at the beginning and not have any of his past coursework (from thirty years earlier) count one way or the other, one would think that one could do so and that it would be none of the college's or university's business that he had. But that's not the way it works. Even if a student with 30-year-old credits -- for some of which he might have gotten good grades, and for other of which he may not have -- wishes to repeat every last one of them now; and, therefore, to have only the most recent credits count, he cannot do so by simply not disclosing those thirty-year-old credits on his current application.

Most colleges and universities have a policy that if the applicant doesn't disclose every last college/university that s/he has ever attended; and/or if s/he doesn't authorize the college/university to which s/he is currently applying to obtain full transcripts therefrom, then s/he (the applicant) is guilty of having effectively lied on his/her application and, therefore, can be dismissed as a student (or even have his/her degree, if already earned by the time the lie is discovered, removed). At most U.S. colleges and universities, not fully disclosing every bit of prior coursework, no matter where obtained, is risky business!

Now, all that said, it isn't that new, repeated coursework with good grades can't be used to effectively cancel-out old coursework for which low grades were earned. Most U.S. colleges and universities will allow that very thing. But they want their transcript to accurately reflect what happened: That the old coursework with the lousy grade was earned however many years earlier; and that the new, repeated coursework with a much better grade is now offered in its stead and is so reflected on the transcript. In other words, if you were a screw-up in college as a youth, but are now a responsible and mature adult, both things must appear on your transcript... like it or not.

That's the way U.S. colleges -- be they regionally-accredited or not -- tend to like things done. And trying to end-run that process by not being fully forthcoming on one's application can have dire consequences.

What kind of transcripts the institution requires will depend on what kind of transfer credit it will accept. In other words, it's not just a regionally-accredited thing. If a regionally-accredited institution asks only for transcripts of all prior regionally-accredited coursework, then what it's saying is that it will only consider/accept regionally-accredited coursework in transfer. A regionally-accredited institution, on the other hand, that would be willing to accept nationally-accredited credits will ask for transcripts of both regionally- and nationally-accredited coursework.

 

What DesElms said.

 

Re: Re: Transcripted in toto

Ask for or require, "warts and all?"

I don't see anything to argue with in your reply. I do think, and think we would agree, that the policy is outdated.

The policy seems to be universal so I was wondering if anyone knows whether the policy is dictated by the RAs or has just been adopted by all(?) RA schools.

 

Re: Re: Re: Transcripted in toto

Don't put words in my mouth. While I can see the problems with it, I'm not sure I'm ready to go that far. The policy is, if nothing else, fully-disclosing. It permits one to replace bad work with good, but it also requires that one's having done so is -- perhaps painfully -- evident. I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

When I discussed this very subject with a registrar from a regionally-accredited Midwestern college about four months ago, she made it sound like it was an RA thing. But I'm not sure. I am fairly sure, however, that enough institutions follow the policy that where it originated is kinda' moot. It is what it is.

 

Transcripted in toto applies to all schools, not just USNY, TESC, and COSC. Reason: the school that accepts transfer credits normally does not show grades from previous colleges attended and therefore the official final GPA reflects only those courses taken at the institution that one actually graduated from. Thus, my official graduating GPA from my BA in History/Political Science from Western State College reflects (if I recall correctly) a GPA of 3.033 overall, 3.125 in History, and 3.500 in Political Science. However, since I did my first three years of undergraduate studies at Mesa State College, the ability to review my transcripts in toto indicates that I have a GPA of 2.944 overall, 3.186 in History, and 3.419 in Political Science.

 

What Gregg said.

There is also a disciplinary angle here. Formal expulsion from a college or university usually is reflected in the transcript. By requiring all transcripts at schools attended, the school in question is covering its collective backside. While most ne'er-do-wells would simply omit the expulsing institution, if the school attending finds out about it, you're hosed. More importantly, if you do something that puts the school at legal risk, they have a fall-back defense: "We require this information on penalty and he lied to us anyway."

marilynd

 

All respondents are making good points but none that are "official."

It would be a hoot if there is no such official policy but a tradition adhered to as educational gospel.

 

At the University of Tampa we are looking for all the transcripts for several reasons - how do the transfered class descriptions and requirements match up with ours in order for the student to get credit, what was the GPA and were there excessive withdrawals. The GPA is obvious, how can we admit a student without knowing their GPA? Also, if they send us only one transfer that happens to be the only time they got a GPA over 3 then that would be gaining admittance under false means. The transfer credits are for the students benefits so they get full credit and don't repeat and classes. The excessive withdrawals can mean they were trying only for easier classes to up their GPA.

Now, we will take a 50 year old freshman, and ignore their prior college credits if they are coming in completely as a freshman - that means starting absolutely over - Freshman Eng 101, College Algebra, etc. If they intend any credits to transfer, then they have to produce all the transcripts and be treated as either a transfer student or a second degree seeking student.

I have no idea if any of this is required by any other agency.

Deb

 

That sounds reasonable and with reasonable flexibility. Much like what I've had in mind. The student can't have it all ways but does have some options.

Do you know how old the credits/courses to be so treated?

 

We currently have a 47 year old male freshman in one of the dorms. The only problem with that is that some of the "normal" freshmen think it's odd for him to want to be around them. (Our dorms are based strictly on price, not by class status.)

As far as I know there is no time limit to look at the transcripts but obviously some courses could be rejected due to outdated information since they wouldn't match current class descriptions. I don't think the computer science classes taken in 1970 would have much good now. (Or those from 1990 for that matter.) Mathmatics would still be mathmatics, I think.

I can ask on Monday for details if anyone wants more information.

Deb

 

This, precisely as described, is different from what I was talking about. The above suggests that as long as the 50-year-old freshman were willing to begin at the beginning, then whatever might be out there in his past is moot and that the new institutions wouldn't even want to see it; that as long as he didn't intend to transfer any of those old credits, the new institutions didn't need to see the old transcript(s). If so, that's not how it works at most places, as it's been explained to me (and as it appears someone has told the thread-starter).

I'm saying that my understanding of the way most RA schools (and possibly most NA schools, too, for all I know) do it is that that 50-year-old freshman can begin at the beginning, but bygod whatever prior credits he earned (or flunked-out of, as the case may be) will be reflected on his new transcript as well... as part of his permanent, lifetime record -- good or bad -- which he cannot escape.

The grade for the new coursework (the Freshman English 101, for example; or the College Algebra, or whatever, as Deb described) would, depending on the institution, either be averaged with the old grade (unlikely at most institutions), or would simply replace the old grade (more likely at most institutions); and the new transcript would still show that thought the new grade is replacing the old one for GPA-calculating purposes, there was, nevertheless, an old one that isn't calculated for GPA purposes, but is shown for the record.

Again, my point is that the old transcript doesn't just go away, no matter how willing the 50-year-old student is to begin back at the beginning. From what institutions have told me, he can begin at the beginning all he wants, but the fact that it's his second beginning will be reflected on his new transcript, regardless.

 

It is odd. I'd take root canal over listening to college freshmen.

Math remains math but math retention becomes iffy. For me, that would be the same for accounting ( I studied with Pacioli ) and, I'm sure, other subjects.

Details are good. Thank you.

 

I believe that's how it is in New York but that could be a Regents or Middle States requirement.

 

Well, yes... that does seem to be your point: That maybe this sort of thing is more tradition than RA dictate. And my response to that is, "I dunno." But it doesn't really matter, does it? I mean, if everyone's pretty much doing it (or only slight variations thereof in some cases), isn't it pretty much something with which we must all live, regardless?

 

A number of members have brought up the subject of low GPAs back in their callow years. If these transcript requirements are by region or by school or by golly then the physical location of a prospective school may be a consideration for some.

A legitimate educational tabula rasa well appeals to my American gene. And I think that attuned to these times. The fact of our longer lifespans is changing everything. We no longer need to finish one phase of life by some prescribed age so as to move on to the next stage and the next and then die.