Community college and bachelor's

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by guy_smiley, May 22, 2005.

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  1. guy_smiley

    guy_smiley New Member

    Why don't community colleges offer bachelor's degrees? Is it true regulation prevents them from doing so? Why?

    Why not master's? Why not doctorate's?

    The professors are the same. The subjects are the same. Is this a silly question? I don't get it.
     
  2. mintaru

    mintaru Active Member

    There are (very few) community colleges offering bachelor's degrees!

    See:
    http://www.fldoe.org/cc/students/cc_bacc.pdf
     
  3. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Once a community college begins offering Bachelors degrees, then they are no longer a community college. For example, once Saint Petersburg Junior College began offering Bachelors degrees, they removed the term "Junior" from their title. They did that a couple of years ago.
     
  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Clarafication, junior and community college are interchangeable, although the term "community college" additionally implies publicly owned.
     
  5. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member


    One reason is that community colleges don't offer upper division credit. Another is that the role for community colleges is different than for BA/BS granting universities.

    However, as has been mentioned, there are a very few that offer them. Also, some offer them in conjunction with 4-year schools (as is done locally for me at the College of the Sequoias in concert with California State University, Fresno).



    Tom Nixon
     
  6. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    As Mintaru points out, there are some. But as MeAgain points out, if they start offering too many bachelors programs, they wouldn't be considered a community college any longer.

    I think that what you most often see is a community college offering a BA in liberal studies for prospective elementary school teachers. That's not hard to implement, since the school already offers introductory classes in many general ed subjects.

    Great Basin College in Elko NV is a community college that serves a huge area of remote northeastern Nevada. It's been gradually rolling out a few bachelors programs and is probably on the way to becoming a new state college.

    http://www.gbcnv.edu/programs/

    Another thing that you see is a community college serving as a remote site for bachelors (and sometimes graduate) degree programs offered by different schools. Making better use of underutilized community college facilities is more cost effective than building expensive new plant at existing colleges.

    An example of that is Canada College in Redwood City CA. They offer several bachelors programs from San Francisco State, CSU East Bay and CSU Monterey Bay, plus an SFSU MBA and a couple of teaching credentials.

    http://canadacollege.net/university/index.html

    Well, many community college employ lots of faculty with masters degrees. I gather that most of the remote site programs at Canada College are taught by CSU faculty who commute in.

    And graduate programs would kind of pull a community college away from its roots and propel it into a research university role.

    Community colleges have a very important role to play. They provide a huge variety of technical-vocational training. They supply remedial courses to people who aren't prepared to enter a bachelors program. And they supply lots of continuing education on a course by course basis to the general community.

    Teaching the first two years of transfer curricula are only one of the things that they do.
     
  7. boydston

    boydston New Member

    An increasing number of community colleges ARE offering bachelors degrees. The line between tier 2 and tier 3 schools is blurring.

    However, not all community college instructors are academically qualified to teach upper division or graduate courses. In addition, it would be a stretch for a community college to provide the other resources necessary to support more advanced programs -- and distracting from their primary mission.
     
  8. CoachTurner

    CoachTurner Member

    One might rightly argue that transfer programs are actually a small part of what the community college is there for.

    Community/junior colleges are often the primary provider of vocational/technical education in a community (auto repair, welding, carpentry) . They provide workforce development and remedial education.

    In many communities, it is the CC that offers adult basic education, adult HSD, and GED programs.

    It's often the CC that offers the community all manner of professional/para-professional licensing training (real estate, insurance, contracting, truck driver) as well as the allied health education (x-ray, lab tech, med office asst., EMT, LPN/LVN, and RN).

    Then, there's the community interest/continuing education offerings -- a very valuable addition to the quality of life in any community.

    It's often the CC that offers the "everyone welcome" education that some young people, those that didn't do as well as they might have in HS, rely on in order to better themselves.

    The CC is an important part of the system. It has a valid mission that it does pretty well by many accounts.

    I agree that it would be good to see more BA/BS (and even grad) programs offered on the CC campus by the higher institutions -- I think we have to remember what the CC is there for and support their mission.

    We interested in DL often find them a cost effective route to some GenEd requirements, but that's not really their primary function in the community (IMHO)...
     
  9. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    When I went to the Los Angeles Valley Community College in L.A., tuition was free. :D

    I understand that the California community colleges now charage around 18 dollars per credit.
     
  10. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    It's certainly not a silly question; and it's not quite as cut-and-dried as previous posters are trying to make it, either.

    To begin with, I think it's wrong to say, categorically, that "junior college" and "community college" are syonymous or in any way interchangeable. While that may be true in some states, it may simply be because of the way that state's laws which regulate public and private institutions of higher learning defines it. Or it could, simply, be a result of long-practiced tradition. But the exceptions make it wrong to declare categorical interchangeability.

    A "junior college" is, by definition, one that only offers lower-division credit (i.e., the equivalent of the first two years, or the first 60 credit hours, of a four-year, 120-hour bachelors degree program). A junior college typically offers the approximately 60-credit-hour Associate of Arts (AA) or Associate of Science (AS) or even Associate of Applied Science (AAS) degrees. A junior college may or may not necessarily also be a "community college;" and vice versa.

    Many -- most, even -- community colleges are, in fact, junior colleges. But some community colleges offer both associates (two year/60-hour) and bachelors (four year/120-hour) degrees. They're uncommon, granted, but they exist. When they offer bachelors degrees, they're simply no longer junior colleges; but they can still be community colleges.

    As for masters and doctorates... hmmm... that's probably a tall order for any "community" college; but, hey... maybe if I dug around enough I'd find one. My point is, there is nothing about the word "community" when placed in front of the word "college" which prohibits it from offering any degree it wants... that is, as long as its state's laws permit it. A "junior" college, on the other hand, would never offer anything higher than an associates degree.

    The term "community college" does, indeed, imply public/state ownership -- perhaps even county or city ownership, depending on the jurisdiction. But, again, not always. In some states, "community college" is the legal designation for all publicly-owned junior colleges... hence the perfectly reasonable (but nevertheless inaccurate) suggestion that the terms "community college" and "junior college" are always interchangeable. Certainly in states with the kind of statutory designation that I've described in this paragraph, the two terms would be interchangeable. But they're not everywhere. In still other states, "community college" simply means state- or community-owned, but not part of the state university system.

    A "junior" college can also be privately-owned, in which case it will almost certainly not bear the "community college" moniker, but will still be a "junior" (two-year, 60-semester-hour, associates-degree-granting) college. I suppose it's possible that in some communities, state law may permit a private junior college to be so community-minded that it calls itself a "community" college because it's pretty much the only game in town and it wishes to function in that role for its community. Who knows.

    It can be complex -- not complicated, mind you, but complex -- because of the different ways that different states use the terminology. The only term that can probably be used safely across all fifty states is "junior college." Nearly everywhere, that's just a two-year, 60-semester-hour, associates program.

    All of the above having been said, the reasons you've been given the answers you've been given so far is because, as a practical matter, most community colleges are also junior colleges... which are also publicly-owned. As a matter of common practice, it's understandable that the two terms are considered interchangeable.

    The bottom line, though, is that one cannot assume anything when discussing how all 50 states do it. Within a given state, however, everything everyone else here has told you may well be true. But, again, it's state/jurisdiction dependent.

    It always pays, therefore, to assume nothing and do the work of asking the college in question precisely what kind of college it is; and precisely what kind of degrees it offers... if any.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2005
  11. Revkag

    Revkag New Member

    My perspective is that many Junior Colleges - Community Colleges offer the basic two years core - required courses in locations where many students can stay at home and not have to move away to a university, thus making the first couple of years more affordable. With the increasing costs of housing, tuition, fees, etc... at traditional B& M schools, it makes sense to be able to stay close to home for the first 60 hours or so...

    Also, many Junior Colleges - Community Colleges offer a lot of
    vocational and technical certificates for those who are not going into fields that require an academic background. In a recent Houston Chronicle article, it stated that there is a growing need for vocational - technical skilled people. Junior Colleges - Community Colleges can help train individuals to meet that need.
    Many plumbers, electricians, auto mechanics and the like receive their training in specialized programs offered at the local Junior College - Community College.
     
  12. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    And make no mistake about it, many mechanics, plumbers, nurses, and dental technicians make much more than many graduates with 4 year degrees. In classes I have taken at the local CC, it is not uncommon for people with a Bachelor's degree to return for a vocational degree to get a good paying joib. :)
     

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