Army recruiter tells unqualified applicant to get a fake diploma so he can enlist

Extraordinary story in the Denver paper about a high school honor student who tested the Army recruitment system by posing as a high school dropout who failed the GED, and was hooked on marijuana and psychedelic mushrooms. As the story says, "No matter how stoned and stupid McSwane acted, a pair of recruiters wouldn't wouldn't let him go."

"McSwane insisted to the recruiters that he couldn't lick his drug habit, but one recruiter told him to take some "stuff" that would "clean you out." It turned out to be a detoxification kit the recruiter said had worked with other applicants. McSwane said the recruiter even offered to pay half the cost of the kit."

"McSwane's claim of being a dropout didn't discourage his recruiters either. He was encouraged to take a high school equivalency diploma exam, which McSwane deliberately failed. That's when he said one recruiter introduced him to the "home-school option." McSwane was told to order a phony diploma and transcripts from an online diploma mill."

He bought one for $200, and the Army agreed to take him.

I think it may be relevant to remember that the top man, the head of HR for the Defense department, himself has a fake degree, and, as we just learned, accreditation is not in his "skillset."

The story is at
http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_3792690,00.html

 

Going on for years and years.....

This has been going on for years and years. In Chicago in the 80's, a Catholic school helped by handing out diplomas from a real school. They felt it was helping the less fortunate get ahead. Wherever there is pressure for someone to perform there will be people to cut corners....

 

John,

I think it's only fair to note that the recruiters involved in this case along with other recruiters suspected of "cheating" will be disciplined. Your article also mentions the fact that the Army Recruiting Command conducted a Stand Down yesterday, to Refocus on Values.

You may know that the Army has its own system of quality control. It is possible, even likely that the character portrayed by our young journalist, David McSwane, would have been found unfit and processed for an administrative separation due to a fraudulent enlistment.

I'm no fan of Mr. Abell or Columbus University, but I think it's a stretch to compare him to this case. Did Abell use the bogus degree to obtain his position?

On another thread, there is an ongoing discussion of bias in the media we chose to use. I have a certain bias and I think it clear. I support this administration and I am pro-military regardless of administration. You certainly have a bias and it's showing.

At a "Newsweek lies" press conference last Wednesday,
New York Times White House Correspondent, Elisabeth Bumiller asked this question:

"Are you asking them to write a story about how great the American military is; is that what you're saying here?"

Well John, that's what I'm asking you. Can you occasionally mention how great the United States military is?

In the field of education alone, there is a whole lot more going on that is positive.

 

This has been a major story all over the military recruiting world. I'm a United States Navy Recruiting Supervisor and we're having a day long stand down to discuss what happened with this Army Recruiter and hopefully impress upon our Recruiters to do the right things.

 

I'm not a flag waver for my own country (Canada) -- I've only ever voted in one election in my adult life (can't stand politics or politicians) -- nor do I like flag waving when other countries do it -- but that said, I'm going to say something.

My time at AMU, teaching men and women in the American military (almost all of my students were AM), just about the time they were deployed en masse taught me one thing -- it taught me to have a great respect for those who, for whatever reason, chose to serve their country at an incredibly difficult time, when world public opinion was against them.

Some of my students had to arrange for alternate proctors while they were writing their term papers on laptops from locations undisclosed (I can only assume some were getting shot at between research and paper submission).

God how unimportant software development, network security, software design principles, and contemporary internet topics must have seemed in the face of all that -- but nobody in any of my classes quit his or her studies because a war started. Not one student. All hell broke loose, but they made arrangements to keep in the courses. Even when it meant we (the professors) were asked to bend over backwards to make sure we accomodated their particular circumstances (and in some cases, we couldn't even be told, for security reasons, what those particular circumstances were).

As someone who quit traditional university (in a country whose last great crisis was the FLQ thing, when I was just a baby!) because it wasn't for him, I can say that this exposure to the men and women of the American military services was an eye opener, and cause for reflection about everything I had ever allowed myself to believe about the military machine before that time.

 

Good story, Quinn. As always, hats off to the men and women of the armed services.
Jack

 

I appreciate Mr Jackson's tribute to the military personnel he taught. I also deplore the stuff Dr Bear deplores. It seems that the issues are integrity and honour.
Failures of integrity and honour should never be generalized--nor ever excused
--not for an instant.

Thus the rectification of names is fostered.

Let a soldier BE a soldier.
Let a recruiter BE a recruiter.

 

Would you rather that cheaters and liars like these recruiters not be exposed? It would seem to be that if you are pro-military that you would support them being found out and disciplined? In the long run it makes the military more professional.

I don't think every bad story about any organization has to immediately be followed by a good story. This story exposed a nasty truth and needed to be told.

 

Deb,

No. I would not rather that cheaters and liars like these recruiters not be exposed. The Army recognizes this is a serious concern and they are dealing with as such.

Dr. Bear makes no mention of the Army Stand Down, which is mentioned in the article he cited, in his post. Instead he takes a swipe at Charles Abell, which though right on target is not all that relevant to the Army Recruiting story.

I made no insistance that every bad story must be followed with a positive one. It would be nice however, if those who can find the time to frequently bash the military could also find the time to recognize the positive aspects of the military. There are many positive things happening in the military, especially in the field of education.

One example is that for the first time in history, senior enlisted personnel are pursuing master's degrees right along side senior officers at the Navy War College.

 

Part of the difficulty here is that those who live by the (media) sword will perish by the (media) sword. No question but that there is in much of the media a strong anti-military bias. No question but that the military gets more than its share of media attention and loves it so.

I get a bit weary of those who suggest that the only compassionate people are anti-military, and I get a bit weary of those who suggest that only the military-affiliated are patriotic. ***Neither category includes the posters to this thread***, but they're out there in TV-Land, and they do weary me.

Congrats on a civil discussion in a highly emotional area.

Thank you for having a care for the reputation of this board.

 

I know these questions were directed to John, but this is a public forum, so I thought I'd join in.

Talking about these incredibly ugly things does not necessitate discussion of positive things. There is no need for balance. No one is drawing an over-arching conclusion about the Army here, just the behavior of some recruiters, along with a man who, in his very high position, is a role model for others. While it would be difficult to draw a direct connection between the undersecretary's claim of a fake degree and these recruiters' actions, one has to wonder if they both stem from the same atmosphere of tolerance to breaches of integrity. Can you imagine if Rumsfeld came out and fired the guy, stating that such cheating won't be tolerated? Wouldn't that set a different tone throughout the DOD?

 

Rich, I don't know if "the guy" means the millist fake Abell or the crooked recruiter (or both), but if that happened, I'd stand up and cheer.

 

The millist, but I guess both would apply.

 

I welcome your input.

Again, I made no demand for balance. However, it would be nice to see some balance. For every DOD bureaucrat or National Guard General with a bogus degree, you know yourself, there are tens of thousands of young military men and women earning accredited degrees at the same time as they accomplish the extraordinary in the service of the United States.

 

My congratulations and heartfelt thanks to them today, Armed Forces Day 2005.

 

If exposing dishonesty on the part of a couple of military recruiters is bashing the whole military then the military is much worse off than I suspect.

 

There are crises and there are crises. Quite a few (as to relative population) Canadians served in Vietnam. When Canada disallowed Canadians from serving in the US military, many Canadians circumvented the law to serve. Wouldn't be surprised if that's still going on.

 

I agree completely, which makes the (continuing) actions of the undersecretary so reprehensible.

 

Yes, but what makes this person's actions so despicable is that he is in charge of making sure that our young men and women follow the rules and he himself does not.

As a veteran, I find it embarrassing to the military and he should either resign or be fired. End of story.



Tom Nixon

 

Lets be real here

Lets be real here. This recruiter's career is probably over. He may hang on for a little while but it is very unlikely he will be allowed to retire. I have seen people ruined for less. We even had a term for it in the 90's, the "no fault" military. Screw up once and your gone. If your eligible to retire you may be allowed to, but if your not you are probably screwed.

On the flip side, as a civilian I have seen state and federal employees repeatedly do such things and worse with little or no repercussions. Sexual harrassment? Who cares, get a transfer and maybe a pay raise. What little I have seen in academia is downright atrocious. Screw a student? Heck, some view that as one of the benefits.

From someone who has been on both sides of the fence the cover ups and side slipping is much worse out here.

I'll take the integrity I saw displayed in the Army over any of that I have seen in the one private company and 3 public organizations where I have worked any day....