Changes in Tenure laws

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Mr. Engineer, Apr 15, 2005.

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  1. Mr. Engineer

    Mr. Engineer member

    I was wondering what everyone else's feeling were on Arnold's proposed changes to the tenure laws which protect public school teachers and Professors.

    I am on the fence with this issue. While I think it is important that we protect our teachers and Professors from undue political interferance, I also am concerned about the minority of instructors who are marginal and abuse the tenure system.

    My thoughts have always been: Why are teachers and Professors afforded legal protections that the private sector does not enjoy? I can be at my job for 20 years, and if my numbers don't hold up for an extended period of time (I am a semiconductor equipment engineer), I am history - period - no civil service hearing, nota.

    My bro is a CHP SGT and IA investigator. He says that you have to almost commit a felony (or be convicted of a gun or domestic violence crime) to get fired. The same 2% of the department is punished time and time again, usually for simular offenses. Why is does civil service afford protection to these individuals?

    Any input or insite?

    W.
     
  2. qvatlanta

    qvatlanta New Member

    I don't want to stake a position here, I just want to put something in perspective... when you say that professors are afforded privileges not given to the private sector, that's only partly true, because tenured professors are a definite minority of all postsecondary teachers. Once you get the top it's all good, but below that level it's a jungle. Many universities use an "up-or-out" system where a tenure-track professor is hired under a contract. If the university doesn't like their work -- they might not actively dislike the work, it's just that the professor isn't a star performer or exceptionally well-connected or their specialty wasn't exactly what the university had in mind -- then they're out. Enron used to have a similar system called "rank-and-yank"! It's also somewhat similar to the military... in pursuit of these insecure, serial posts, professors often have to uproot their families and move to a university on the other side of the continent.

    The reason why people submit themselves to this tough (even vicious) system is not really the pay -- private sector jobs pay more, unless it's a field like philosophy -- it's the possible reward of tenure. With that removed, these jobs would become much less attractive to the most qualified professors. So I think that changing the tenure system could have very negative consequences unless other components of the system are also changed in tandem... maybe even (gasp) paying them more money to make up for it.
     
  3. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member


    And I think you can extend the argument to include public school teachers. No, you will not make much money, but there is job security. And that security

    It's important to understand, though, that to get that tenure in public schools in CA, you have to go through two years where you can be fired/not have your contract renewed for any or no reason. Why are so very, very few low-performing teachers not let go at this point?

    Again, this is one of those "bash the teachers and their unions" moments, but if administration did its job, many of the poor teachers would never make it past that first two years.



    Tom Nixon
     

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