Good Morning, I was recently in a classroom (Friday) and was taped by a student. The classroom is set up with a computor that can create raps for learning. Although I was talking about a local sandwhich shop I let him know how inappropriate and illegal this was. LEGAL EXPERTS Is this illegal? Thanks . Hille
It Comes With the Territory Is it legal? About as legal as copying pages from a copyrighted textbook. In other words, technically it could be construed as illegal, but it's nothing to get in a snit over. (And even then, copyright law and/or individual publishers has exceptions that allow for the copying or quoting of portions of a work for personal use.) However, your message isn't quite clear: Was it a conversation that was taped, or a presentation? If it was a conversation, it depends on the state you were in: when it comes to the serruptitious taping of, say, a phone conversation or a conversation that takes place in a room between two people, some states have a one-party consent requirement, some require the consent of both parties. What may be illegal to tape in Pennsylvania is legal to tape in New Jersey. (Pennsylvania requires the consent of both parties, New Jersey the consent of only one party - at least last I checked.) However, federal law requires the consent of both parties, and may or may not override the relevant state law in a given circumstance. All that said, it is a given that classes are taped - not only by students, but sometimes by teachers. (Or in a combination circumstance - when I did my student teaching while pursuing the Ph.D., I taped an occasional class and sent an edited version to my doctoral committee so they would know that I was doing what I was supposed to be doing and could evaluate me accordingly.) Whether the student who is taping is doing so for his or own personal use, or to sell the tapes, is also a factor. Far more restrictions can be placed upon proprietary (profit-making) use of a class recording than a personal use. The bottom line is that, as teachers or presenters, we can expect students to click on a cassette recorder in the same way that we can expect them to take notes. If you have an objection to this, you can restrict taping, but need to establish such a rule at the beginning of a semester or at the beginning of a specific session. (It's not unusual for classes in, say, counseling or psychology - in which students may share their personal situations - to have such rules.) All of these regulations essentially come under the heading of wiretap laws, and ethical issues ensue as well as legal issues. For example, it may be illegal to record by sound and/or video and individual without his or her consent. However, assume that the individual being recorded is a babysitter or nanny who is physically or sexually abusing your child, and that you manage to catch it on tape. In theory, the tape may not be able to be used in a court of law to convict for the offense, not to mention that you could be arrested or sued for making the tape in the first place. (Would you still make the tape? I know I would . . .) In other words, even the question as presented is not cut-and-dried. But if you're a good teacher and are not embarrassing the hell out of yourself or being inappropriate in your presentation, I wouldn't sweat it. Consider it flattering that a student cares enough to want to get as much as possible out of your presentation. Side note: Even if you were trashing the local sandwich shop's bill of fare, don't worry about it. But do take the time to learn about libel law, especially when it comes to expressing opinions as opposed to empirical fact. That's what saved me from being successfully sued by the many degree mills I've trashed over some 20 years.
Oh, goody! Please do share! I grant that you are not necessarily providing legal advice (nor shoulkd you, in this forum anyway) but do share your insights into the specific aspects of libel or slander law that may protect the well-meaning from the mostly frivolous lawsuits filed by diploma mill shills and the like. ...... cause the pummelling of mill drivell and shill nibbles has to and MUST continue unabated, uninterrupted, fearlessly, and relentlessly ......... Thanks.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, but I played one on TV! Generally if there is an expectation of privacy, you cannot tape without all parties consent. I doubt a crowded classroom could expect any real expectation of privacy. Another good example is an encounter with a police officer. Neither party has an expectation of privacy and neither can force one another to stop taping. A clear example of the expectation of privacy is taping phone calls without all parties consent. (or implied consent). Of course if you are part of Heritage Foundations gang of merry manders, it doesn't apply to you. Of course this is only my opinion based on 2 entire years of AJ classes -- but you get my point. The problem I find with the law is that douchbag lawyers write it and try to make it there own rather than for the people.
Simple - pick up a copy of the Associated Press Style Manual (used by many journalists), which includes a comprehensive guide to libel law. (This is not all there is to defamation law, but it's a great start.) Over the years, I've had some 50 lawsuit threats by degree mills, and only one of them ever went ahead and actually filed a suit (which they withdrew before it ever went to court). (They also put their own foot in its mouth so badly that, as a direct result of the suit, they were hit with over $200,000 in fines by the Texas Attorney-General's office.) The essential keys to not being sued are to (1) stick to established facts, and (2) word opinions carefully so they cannot be construed as fact. Then hit hard, and don't be afraid to aim below the belt. For an example of how to pull it off, go to my post in this thread. You'll find the semi-famous letter I sent to Canyon College (a degree mill) that would normally have resulted in a lawsuit - except that they couldn't dispute it. This is merely one example of the many times I've slapped degree mills - without them slapping back.
Doctor Levicoff Doctor Levicoff, Do you have anymore of these wonderful example letters? They are the best!
Thanks for the input. My concerns are that this type of audio equipment can take out words and reconfigure what I said. I am not concerned about a lawsuit from the sandwhich shop. I have found out today there is an exixting lawsuit in NJ involving a student who taped and videos a teacher during the class on the new improved camera phone. Hille
Re: Doctor Levicoff Well, I don't keep many of them on my computer these days, but I do happen to have yet anotehr semi-classic that was a lot of fun. The offender this time was an attorney representing one Dr. Reo Leslie, the head of Aspen Christian College in Colorado. Leslie does, in fact, have a legitimate doctorate, but the school he founded (as well as Survine Bible College, with which he was associated later) was a mill that was exposed by KUSA-TV, the ABC affiliated in Denver. As it happened, I assisted KUSA in their research, so I had an inside scoop on the school. In this case, I reprinted the attorney's letter within the text of my response to him (his letter appears in blue). Needless to say, I never heard from either of them again.
Dr. Levicoff: Your last two posts, dated and timed today, March 13, 2005 (EST) (i) 03-12-2005 08:27 PM and (ii) 03-12-2005 11:52 PM, in this thread ("Distance Learning Discussion Forums, > Off-topic discussions, > Conversation taped by student-ILLEGAL?" which was started by Hille, Senior Member) ARE TO BE HERETOFORE CLASSIFIED AS ALL-TIME CLASSICS! Thank you! Although it is clearly to be understood by all that you are not offering legal advice and are simply sharing your insights and invaluable experiences on the matter of bogus degrees and schools, these last two posts need to be eternally repositoried in Degreeinfo's "Anti-degree mill 'Hall of Fame' ", to be frequently accessed and used by degree mill hunters and raiders, among others, when threatened or sued by the notorious shenaniganistas of the said mill shills. They are much appreciated, and I am sure, will be for a long, long time! You are a life-saver! Thank you!
Uncle Janko, You really have to stop it! It must be a crime sometime somewhere for you to make someone laugh so hard that one's two young kids have to hold an emergency debate (in the absence of one's wife), on whether to call "911" because "Dad is laughing so hysterically and uncontrollably, he needs 'Help!' quickly!" What caused this commotion? A prior post of yours in them here parts that just came to my attention, thanks to Dr. Levicoff's citation above: Utterly hilarious! Thanks, Uncle!
That letter was awesome. You could publish a book made up of entirely of your letters to lawyers. Of course, then they might try to sue for a portion of the royalties...
Reading your letter reminded me of a site that satirized Jerry Falwell. Dr. Falwell's attorney then sent website operator a "Cease-and-Desist" letter. The answer, which was posted on his website, contained jewels like:"...I am not defaming Rev. Falwell, I am merely exercising my constitutional right to express my constitutionally protected opinion that your client, the Rev Dr Falwell, is a fucking jerk..."
Precisely - that is an opinion, and the author was smart enough not to present it as fact. I'm sure that many remember the case of Falwell vs. Hustler Magazine, et al. The esteemed scholarly journal published by Larry Flynt (who ultimately became a friend of Fallwell when they shared the debating stage for several appearances) printed a cartoon in which Falwell was alleged to have had sex with his mother in an outhouse. Falwell sued for defamation (and a host of other causes of action) and won the case in the lower courts. The U.S. Supreme Court reversed, holding that (1) the cartoon was obviously satirical, and (2) Falwell was a public personality, thus subject to critique. Two side notes of revelance . . . First, "Doctor" Falwell's doctorate, as it were, is honorary, not earned. As I recall, he holds a three-year degree from Baptist Bible College (earned during the time that three-year Bible college degrees were fairly common). BBC is a legitimate school in Missouri, affiliated with the Baptist Bible Fellowship - not related to the school of the same name in Clarks Summit, PA, which is affiliated with the General Association of Regular Baptist Churches. Second, Falwell himself uses the title "Doctor." I know this because, shortly before the release of my book When the TRACS Stop Short several years ago, I came into my bedroom from the shower and found a message on my answering machine, "This is Dr. Jerry Falwell . . ." I returned the call and, ten minutes later, Jerry Falwell called me back and asked me not to allow the release of the book. I graciously declined his request, but we had a productive 20-minute conversation and I was actually quite impressed with the man. (At the time, Liberty held accreditation by both SACS and TRACS. I've always felt that they went with TRACS to hedge their bets since they were on probation by SACS at one point.) Point: The world is full of jerks in all positions. And guys like Falwell are used to being critiqued in the negative. As are degree mill operators. And as are degree mill "busters." It comes with the territory . . . no big whoop.
