Background: The California State Master Plan for Higher Education, dating back to the 60's at least, defines the state's public higher education into three systems: The UC's -- intended as research universities. The CSU's -- derived from the teacher's colleges, supposedly emphasizing undergraduate teaching and prohibited from offering doctoral degrees. And the many community colleges that offer two year vocational and transfer programs. The University of California has guarded its doctoral perogative jealously for decades. There are a handful of CSU doctoral programs, but the state only permits them if they are joint programs with a UC or a private research university. Recently this was challenged in the case of education doctorates. Since the CSU's educate the bulk of the state's public school teachers, and many of the CSU's are very tight with local school districts, it was ridiculous that this practical expertise was ignored while UC was busy churning out ivory-tower post-modern educational theorists. Legislation was proposed, the University of California had apoplexy, and they quickly agreed that they would expand joint doctoral programs in education immediately if the legislation was dropped. Then the state budget crisis hit and in its wake UC seems to have relegated most of the joint-degree projects to a priority just behind scratching their butts. Well, the issue is on the table again. This week State Sen. Jack Scott (D-Altadena) will introduce a bill that will allow CSU to offer "professional and clinical" doctoral degrees. Law, medicine, dentistry and veterinary medicine are specifically excluded, as are all Ph.D.s. Presumably CSU would be allowed to offer Ed.D.s, Psy.D.s, DBA's and so on. The thing that triggered this bill was... audiology. (A hot-button topic of conversation here on Degreeinfo.) At the present time, audiologists in the state of California are allowed to diagnose and prescribe for hearing problems with a masters degree. But starting on Jan. 1, 2007, all new audiologists will have to have doctor of audiology (Au.D.) degrees in order to be licensed. Currently, six CSU campuses offer masters degrees in audiology. Five of these departments would presumably have to close. (The sixth, San Diego State, offers a joint Au.D. with UCSD.) No other UC's offer this subject and there are no audiology programs at any of the private universities in California. Physical therapy in California is probably going to follow audiology in requiring doctorates for state licensure. Currently there are five CSU physical therapy programs and only one at a UC (operated jointly with San Francisco State). UC argues that the masterplan has served the state well and shouldn't be changed, and that UC has the resources to start doctoral programs in any subjects the state finds necessary. CSU argues that they already have the faculty, the experience, the labs and the clinics, and that it would be asinine to have to start at the beginning and duplicate all of that at the University of California just to protect their claim to the 'D' title.
Unfortunately, state legislatures have a knack for the asinine. The first thing I'd do is check which legislators attended which schools. Then I'd check to see which legislators have which schools within their voting district. After a bit of cross-referencing I'll bet you'd have a pretty good estimate of which way the vote will go. Personally, I think "the more the merrier," especially when it comes to these professional doctorates. Jack
Re: Re: California State University Doctorates ... (Again) But Jack - since CA legislature is well known as a captive of education and government interests already - you're asking the wrong question. WHO are these people doing bidding for? I can't imagine why PT requires more than an ordinary masters - much less audiology. Hell, you don't need any degree to give investment advice! -Orson
Since California has a knack for doing the wrong thing for the right reason (or for the wrong reason), I predict that this initiative will fail just as the last one did. The UCs are well aware that if they allow the CSUs to offer their own Ed.D.s--which programs and requirements are virtually identical to those of Ph.D.s in education--then some CSU College of Education will start offerring a Ph.D. Once the College of Ed offers a Ph.D., then is the College of Humanities or the College of Social Science far behind, with their own Ph.D.s? They might have an easier time trying to push through a non-dissertation Doctor of Arts, than trying to convince the UCs, that a CSU Ed.D.--which requires research, statistics, comprehensive exams and a research dissertation--is different than a U.C. Ed.D. or Ph.D. in education. If you give a mouse a cookie... Tony Piña Administrator, Northeastern Illinois University (who has worked for two universities and a community college in California)
The state has already deviated from the Master Plan with regards to accessibility. Some include affordability in there, but I don't because we still have a lower tuition (fee) schedule compared to other states even though we has had double digit increase in fees over the past few years. So given these deviations, should we take the master plan and follow it to the letter? Or should we, like other living documents, allow for amendment? I think (with accessibility and fee increases) they (CA legislature) have already concluded it's the latter. Now say this does pass, and CSU offers doctorates: ---CSUs have lower tuition rates, especially if they offered a DBA. Right now, UC grad students in professional programs pay a "professional fee" which is essentially double tuition. CSU currently do not have this additional fee. For my MBA program I pay about $3500 annually. A four year DBA program would cost you about $14000. Not bad. ---Of course there will be some increases, and I wouldn't be completely surprised to see a three-tiered fee schedule: 1)Undergrad, 2)Graduate, non doctoral, 3)Graduate, doctoral. However, it will still be lower than the UC. ---The CSUs have been more willing to offer DL programs. Could DL Ed.D.s, Psy.D.s, DBA's from the CSU be that far behind.
Re: Re: Re: California State University Doctorates ... (Again) Orson - Anyone who tells you that they know the answer to that questions is lying, or stupid, or both. Jack
It is likely that some will use the budget crisis as an excuse either to act or not to act, but much of what happens in California education actually has little to do with the state budget. The issue of CSU doctorates has more to do with turf and ego issues on both sides of the debate. Tony
O august Mar Antoun: The Doctor of Arts degree format does require a dissertation and substantial instruction in pedagogy. Don't run down my stainless beloved. Sigh. Janko the old nomenclature kook and amator exclusus of the D.A. format
Thank you for filling that hole in my knowledge, Unk (now I have just a few million holes to go). Ph.D. and Ed.D. I know; however, before I discovered Degreeinfo, D.A. was just "District Attorney" to me. I retract my suggestion. Tony
