Mr. Engineer links to the Deism page in his sig line. I find it interesting he condemns the so-called religious right and Bush's inclusion of values into the recent campaign yet the site he promotes has this on it. WARNING: The photo is very disturbing and graphic!
I am a Libertarian as well but don't support each and every part of the parties platform. I didn't see this part of the website. Do you support every edict of Christianity and the bible? (I hope you don't beat your wife) I am personally against abortion but since I am unable to ever carry a baby (and neither are you), I can only render and opinion as to whether or not someone else has the right to terminate their pregnancy. I am personally opposed to organized religion for very simple reasons 1. Religion separates people. It is always "them or us" attitude 2. It is generally based on man's intrepretion of what things should be (sorry, the bible and the Koran are man made and wholly written, no more the word of god than what I am writing here). Jesus was a man - Mohammad was a man - nothing else. They are not coming back so waiting for their return in an excercise in futility. 3. People tend to use religion to justify their own agendas. 4. Organized religion is a business - tax it as such. 5. Just because most people believe in organized religion doesn't make it anymore correct. A lot of people beleive in UFO's creating the pyramids - I personally do not. Pray if you want - just keep it out of my face. Despite his rhetoric, GW has put it in everyone's face.
I cannot imagine someone promoting something and being oblivious to parts of what they are promoting.
Mr. Engineer says I don't know what your definition of a business is, but I have never attended nor worked for a church seeking to earn a profit. They support missions, shelter the homeless, feed the hungry, care for the sick and homebound. They fund childcare programs, hospices, food banks and with what is left pay their staff. How is that a business? How do you propose to replace the money these causes would lose if churches were taxed? Do you believe these charities and local missions would get more money if were filtered through the government?
You really can't impute to all Christians or all Christian churches the attitudes or beliefs of a few. I think that is the logical fallacy of composition?
uhh - I guess so. I was raised a Catholic, and my best friend is a Muslim so I have a pretty unqiue point of view. (my ex wife was Hebrew - that made it even more interesting) Ask yourself this question (this is directed at Christians): Can you name a single Native American (Indian) that wanted you to stuff your religion down their throat? Do you actually beleive than Father Serra was a Saint, or like most of the non-Christian world, beleive he was simply a barbarian? Can you name a single Muslim that wanted to embrace your religion? Why do you continue to try to stuff a religious belief down someone else's throat? And don't tell me you don't. I saw it happen quite a bit. Frankly if I was a devote Muslim, I would probably bitch slapped the missionary. This shows what little respect the Christians really have for other religious beleifs. As far as the business aspect, I beleive the US should be totally out of the business of religion. This includes the school prayer issue (like I said before, you want to pray, go ahead - just don't make it a formal thing put on by any paid civil servant). By allowing people to deduct their contributions to their churches from their taxes, everyone is in fact subsidizing your religion. Give money to the church, but do it on your own dime, not mine.
Jimmy As a pastor, do you support every passage of the bible? You never answered my question. I find that most Christian's pick and choose which parts of the bible they want to follow. That is your right, but it just shows that it is more of a guideline than any edict from God.
Jimmy BTW: I never mean to insult you. I am just providing my perspective. If a person's religion gives them strength, then go for it - it is important. I get my inner strength from other things.. Cheers Walt
When I lived and pastored in Detroit I came across a number of former Muslims that freely and openly converted to Christianity.
Walt, Nice name. That's my middle name, ha! You never insulted me. You have been passionate in your beliefs but you have always been respectful and civil and I count you as a friend.
Just now saw this, Walt. Yes, I support every passage in Scripture because I understand the interpretive processes.
Uhhhh.... wait a minute. It's MY dime, not yours. I get a tax break from the taxes I pay from the money I earn. Not to mention (and like I said before) the money I donate to my church MOSTLY goes to help people that would otherwise take money from the government. I don't mean to harp on it but if I tithe $10,000 to my church and am allowed to deduct that, how is that your dime?
I think that is great of you to give 10K to the church. (generous, they must love you -- come to think of it, my brother does that as well) However, at a normal tax bracket of 28%, $2800 of that which would normally be taxes, is not going to the government. Tax breaks, whether they be for mortgage expense, etc, much like bonds, are not free. Someone has to pay the police, fire, etc. (hopefully you are lucky enough to be able to get to the 15% tax bracket - I got married this year so I think my head of household deductions are going to be screwed with the marriage penalty). My point being, that someone else is paying for the services that you are not paying for. It might only add up to a couple of dollars in real money, but it adds up. Anyway, I generally do not support deducting chariable donations. Personally I would support either a national sales tax or a flat percentage tax with no deductions. Should you choose to buy a house, donate, depreciate, or otherwise, it is your own problem.
Spoken like a true pragmatic Libertarian! When will the LP again nominate a candidate like Ed Clark in 1980? Clark had a bold program and was not a one- or two-issue candidate like the nominees that followed. Browne came close in '96 and '02 but he focused too much on the legalization of drugs, I thought. Badnarik could have really done better but he seemed to focus too much on the Second Amendment.
I voted for Browne in 00. I have no problem with the legalization of MJ. I haven't inhaled since HS (except as a consequence of being at a Jimmy Buffet concert - lol), but I think the government puts far too many controls on it and spends too much on its enforcement. The government by both parties is too big and need to be pared a bit. Adding government jobs adds false economy as the only real growth comes from the private sector using private money. I am amazed at the Republican's attitude towards Clinton. Clinton signed a great deal of the Republican's bills (NAFTA being the prime one) - I can think of no other President in my lifetime that has been so bi-partisan. Judges: Who will replace Renquist? Or Blackmun when he retires? GW is in a unique spot in history as most of the Justices are getting up there in age. I predict that he will name no less than 3 justices to the high court in the next 4 years. Hopefully they will be legal schlors like Kennedy, and not dofuses like Scalia or Thomas (what rock did that dunderhead crawl out from?)
So did I and also in '96. Another of Browne's problems was his '96 running mate, Jo Jorgenson. She was a terrible debater and kept repeating the line "Government doesn't work," with nearly every answer at the third party debates. The '00 nominee, Art Olivier, who was mayor of Bellflower, CA, was also a horrible candidate. By the way, former GOP Georgia congressman Bob Barr, supported Badnarik this year. I wonder if he is putting his hat in the ring for '08.
A business does not have to make a profit (I ran a not-for-profit for a few years). I found several Church Business web sites including http://www.churchbusiness.com/
Now your mixing apples and oranges. The business (commerical, industrial, or professional dealings) of the church is not a business (a commercial [having profit as its chief aim] enterprise or establishment) The website you provided has links to articles such as "The effects of lifestyle changes for seniors" or "Devtional Writing" these subjects are in fact the business (one's rightful or proper concern or interest) of the church Don't try to confuse the issue with word games. When someone says the "church is a business" - you know the context in which it is used! Jimmy - GSST is going great. Finishing my last class, then I start my thesis: "The Historicity of Bible and its relevance in 21st century evangelism". Hopefully will finish in 6 months. Thanks for asking, Mike
