Oddly enough this topic entered my mind as I was driving down the highway and "Kid Rock" came on the radio. During his "Bawitaba" song he says "... all you bastards at the IRS...". That made me flashback to a few months ago when I was watching "Family Fued" and Richard Karn informed the crowd that one of the contestants worked for the IRS. As soon as he said that there was an eruption of boos that poured from the crowds. We've all heard, at least a million times, that the only two certain things in life are death & taxes. People I know seem to be under this assumption that we are slaves to the IRS. Even the Beatles were under that assumption. Here's a verse from aptly titled "Taxman": "Now my advice for those who die Declare the pennies on your eyes 'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman And you're working for no one but me." Declare the pennies from my eyes? Without those the Ancient Greeks wouldn't to pay the toll to Charon (the ferryman who carried the souls of the dead to Lethe ). Yikes, spending eternity wandering around the river because I didn't have two pennies DOES NOT sound like fun. Anyway, I'd appreciate any & all feedback. 'Nova "Stuffing two pennies in his pocket"
Well, I don't blame them for the tax laws (which take almost half of everything I earn) because ultimately we are responsible for that (although the tax codes are so complicated that I'm not sure that there's anyone who actually fully understands them). I do, however, blame them for the apparent glee with which they enforce these laws, taking away peoples homes, their businesses, etc. I have heard stories, from people that I trust, about IRS agents who were absolutely giddy about dropping the hammer on people who were just trying to get by, not hardcore criminals trying to rob the government but just ordinary citizens who wound up losing everything to the IRS (and subsequently, winding up on welfare and costing the government more afterwards. Stories like these are almost enough to make you turn Libertarian (if they weren't such losers), right Jimmy? Jack
Jimmy - no offense was intended. I don't mind saying that I have Libertarian tendencies. These are related, primarily, in my fundamental belief in the right to self-determination. If the Libertarian party were more of a force then this might be a different election. This is also true of the leftleft wing parties (Green, etc.) I'd be interested to know how we in the US have been so solidly divided into two parties while elsewhere in the world there are a multiplicity of parties. Is it really just about money? Jack (sorry, perhaps this should be a topic on the politics forum. Oh well, I won't persist here)
Many years ago, following a very nasty divorce and a period of self unemployment, I ended up owing IRS for three years running and unable to pay. I stayed in touch with the IRS and state taxing authorities and eventually worked it all out, paying all penalties and interest. I was never treated with anything but professional courtesy. IRS never attempted to take my house or attach such income as I had. I have also represented taxpayers in front of IRS. Same treatment. Always. I can tell you all where SOME of the horror stories come from, though. IRS gets really nasty with people who owe taxes on criminal income (because they work as a law enforcement agency of sorts; remember Al Capone?), hiding assets, or even more, with so-called "trust taxpayers". Trust taxpayers are people who have employees and therefore withhold income tax and social security payments from those employees' paychecks. Now, what happens is, the taxpayer doesn't pass those withheld funds to IRS. The employee remains personally liable for all the taxes he owes and it's just too bad if the trust taxpayer took the money for himself. This is an ongoing fraud on the employee. Therefore, IRS will padlock a business that is doing this in order to limit the damage, both to IRS and to the employees. IRS will also padlock businesses where there is reason to believe that the owner is intending to hide or dispose of assets. ANY creditor will try to do this; it's just easier for IRS to do it.
Clearly, I do not dispute anyones positive dealings with the IRS. However, it is faulty reasoning to suggest that because ones own dealings have been positive then all others who claim negative dealings must be outlaws. One need only go to our old friend Google and type in "IRS abuse" or IRS transgressions" and you will find an almost unending stream of horror stories. Are these all from people who are "hiding assets" a la Al Capone? I think not. Jack
I had a a couple things with the IRS. I've found the people I dealt with to be firm, but civil and professional. However, the California Franchise Tax board is something else. These people make steel I-Beams look like overcooked angel hair!
Doubtless there will be significant varation when dealing with any entity the size of IRS. But I do suggest that taxpayers with "horror stories" MIGHT not always be telling the ENTIRE truth. Another group that gets the mean treatment are so-called "tax protesters". Even I don't have any sympathy for those folks!
Yes, of course you're right. They're not all telling the whole story. There was, however, a big Congressional investigation several years ago with lots of evidence, etc presented and there were many nasty stories about the IRS. BTW, I, personally, have never had a problem with them. As for the "tax protesters," I don't mind that as I see it as a form of civil disobedience. It is important that the person be willing to accept the consequences, however, as I believe this is a part of the operational definition. Jack
Paying taxes is not an optional activity. In a free society, a refusal to file and pay strikes at the heart of the social order and is, in effect, an effort to undermine the government. The consequences should include, and very often DO include, prison.
OK, OK, calm down. Tell me, what is it that I said in my last post that at all contradicts what you said in your last post. People have been known to go to prison/jail on principal ya know. Jack
True enough, and some of those who sell books filled with tax protester rubbish themselves are very careful to file and pay because they HAVE been to prison! I think that my real gripe is with that intersection between tax protesters and so called constitutionalists. I have dealt professionally with these people; it is a frustrating experience! They tend to form and act upon legal opinions that are almost biblical in approach, ignoring 250 years of American jurisprudence. Most aggravating when what I'm trying to do is keep them out of jail!
