More on plagiarism at U. Newcastle

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by oxpecker, Sep 9, 2004.

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  1. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

    Here's a story about the University of Newcastle (Australia) that will send a shudder through Prof. Kennedy: Uni urged to reconsider failed plagiarists' marks

    As education becomes increasingly commoditized and commercialized, we may see more pressures such as those described here.

    Snippets from the article:
    • A Malaysian education executive wrote to University of Newcastle officials after foreign students were failed for plagiarism, asking them to review the cases "more generously", an inquiry has been told. ...

      It followed an incident in 2002 when 15 students were given zero marks after a marker discovered "serious" plagiarism, including slabs of essays copied from the internet.

      He wrote that "if word gets out that it is a very tough course and large numbers of students are failing, then we will have a tough time to recruit students in a highly competitive market".

      After the then dean of business, Paul Ryder, ordered that the papers be re-marked, all students were passed with marks up to 84 per cent. ...

      The next day, Professor Marimuthu emailed Dr Rugimbana saying: "We really appreciate your efforts to sort out the high failure rates ... As I have explained to you, it is important that we keep the failure rates as low as possible, without compromising the academic standards, of course."

      ...
    Without compromising academic standards? I'm glad I don't teach at Newcastle.
     
  2. Yan

    Yan New Member

  3. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

    Cheating and plagiarism happen at the university where I teach. But I don't have a dean ordering that papers be re-marked. That's the most disgraceful aspect of this case.
     
  4. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Plagiarism hurts.

    When I was looking for an overseas diss-only doctoral program, I had a dissertation proposal topic stolen by a prof at a major university and surreptitiously handed over to an already enrolled student. So plagiarism by students hardly surprises me.

    And before you ask, no, I will not identify the university or the thieving professor. You may discount my statement as unsubstantiated--because I am not substantiating it--but unsubstantiated is not untrue, in this instance. I will not identify the university and prof, partly in order to protect my own privacy, and partly because it would be wrong to blame a whole university for the actions of one more or less man. Should anybody ever mention that they are negotiating with this individual, I will warn the negotiator. And that's a promise.

    Just be warned, those of you who are in the position of needing to turn in a diss proposal in order to be accepted into a diss--only doctoral program, that it is imperative that you get some clear sense of the trustworthiness of your would-be supervisor. My failure to do so in the above instance was an early mistake of mine in my explorations of DL. I have persisted with my project under other auspices, well aware that somebody half a world away (if they finish) will have used my very own proposal and might well surface someday, claiming that I copied them.

    If you wink at today's plagiarism, tomorrow's may come back to haunt you. Be careful.
     
  5. Professor Kennedy

    Professor Kennedy New Member

    Oxpecker
    That there is widespread plagiarism does not send a shudder down my spine. It only confirms what I have said for many years: the biggest challenge to the credibility of both campus taught degrees and DL is the problem of off campus, out of sight graded assessments counting towards the final exam mark.

    All the 'soft' bleating about some people "can't take the stress" of closed book, 3 hour final exams with no choice of questions, reduce to a licence to cheat, in which degree validation becomes compromised and the 'attestation of fitness' highly suspect.

    There is no fail safe system of ensuring the the work graded was done by the person whose name (or number) is on the cover of the candidate's booklet. However, there is the least worst system of unsighted, invigilated by independent persons, i.e., persons who have no connection with the institution or the students, acting to strict impartial rules, and externally examined by faculty from peer universities (and, as ever, no choice of questions!).

    That Newcastle "university" (Australia, not the UK) regraded to pass people is a disgrace. If anybody comes across my notice from that place from now on, they 'shall not pass' whatever they are looking for from EBS. We are proud of the fact that our failure rate per exam diet is known to be about 25 per cent; only those who deserve to pass are passed the EBS final exams. If the entire candidates at an exam Diet were judged to have failed we would still fail them (or I would resign, noisily).

    For DL, where the opportunities are encouraged by 'liberal' bleatings about the poor dears who can't take the stress of exams (some well meaning examples appear on this board), they shall reap what they sow. But not at EBS.

    Eternal disgrace is due to those at Newcastle 'university' (does it deserve the name?).
     
  6. PJFrench

    PJFrench member

    I have experienced it so left, as did others.
     
  7. adamsmith

    adamsmith member

    A lecturer friend of mine in a government university had failed two overseas students on their final subject for their degree, only to find that their names were on the graduation list!

    On approaching the Dean about this problem, he was told to 'remark' the exams as the student's parents had flown from overseas for their children's graduation!

    The problems of full fee paying students in government universities!
     
  8. adamsmith

    adamsmith member

    This problem of plagarism is manily associated with foreign students who undertake Western degrees without an adequate grasp of English.

    Basically, they are incapable of undertaking a degree in the English medium and cheat to pass.

    The simpliest way of overcoming the cheating is to revert to an exam-only based assessment method, or skew the assessment heaverly towards the final exam.

    However, this is unlikely to happen, especially with Western universities that are delivering programs in the foreign country, partly due to the fact that many of these programs are competing against a rapt of diploma mills who offer 'assignment only' based assessment. Plagarism and cheating is the norm in these DM programs, so the real universities are under competitve pressure.

    This is something of the dilemma that the U of Newcastle faced... But there is no excuse.
     
  9. adireynolds

    adireynolds New Member

    Well, yes and no. Although I have had students plagiarize because of language (and, believe me, it's super easy to spot the copied work), there are also cultural reasons for plagiarism.

    One thing I've learned in my 7+years of teaching non-native speakers of English is that in some cultures, the written word is considered to have come from the expert and is inviolate . . . therefore, to take those words, and mould it into your own (i.e., paraphrase or summarize), is tantamount to a great insult. How dare you mess around with the words of the expert? Who are you to do so?

    When I taught academic writing, I found plagiarism was reduced most successfully among my students when I first instructed the students in the Western view of the subject -- I usually started out with the analogy of stealing someone's car radio and putting it in your own . . . this way I could explain that in Western academia, plagiarism is stealing, much in the same way. I also spent a large amount of time on the techniques of paraphrasing, summarizing, citing, etc. -- aspects of writing that don't come naturally to native speakers, much less someone writing in a foreign language.

    And, at the end of the day, I always had my students turn in their work by soft copy, so I could send it through turnitin.com . . . :D
     
  10. adireynolds

    adireynolds New Member

    Re: Plagiarism hurts.

    Uncle Janko,

    That's truly horrid. Any chance of knowing if you will finish before this student and his swine-professor?
     
  11. Pete_1959

    Pete_1959 New Member

    I graduated from The University of Newcastle in the mid-eighties (with a B.A.). I commenced a Master's degree immediately after graduation. While studying, I taught first year undergrads for 12 or so hours per week. At the end of the academic year, I gave a pass grade for my part of the course to a student from S.E. Asia.

    The Head of Department turned up at the tutors' room (I shared an office with three other tutors) with the student in question, asked why I had given her such a poor mark (she never did much work but managed to scrape through) and demanded I give her a better mark. I was young and stupid then (no longer young, unfortunately), and refused. I didn't lose my job, but it was touch and go.

    At the time I just presumed it was the personal foible of the professor concerned. Perhaps it was a sign of things to come...

    On another note, I suffered a similar incident to the one reported above by Uncle Janko. My carefully thought out proposal for my M.A. thesis research topic was given to another student, and I was forced to attempt a topic in which I had no interest. In case you are wondering, it was the same professor.

    Nonetheless, for the main part I enjoyed studying at Newcastle, and am saddened to see its name dragged through the mud by such shameful behaviour.

    Best wishes to all.

    Pete
     
  12. Professor Kennedy

    Professor Kennedy New Member

    "However, this is unlikely to happen, especially with Western universities that are delivering programs in the foreign country, partly due to the fact that many of these programs are competing against a rapt of diploma mills who offer 'assignment only' based assessment. Plagarism and cheating is the norm in these DM programs, so the real universities are under competitve pressure."

    Edinburgh Business School (Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh) has almost all its 8,500 distance learning students resident abroad in foreign countries. All our students sit the same exams and are graded by our faculty (plus Externally Examined by professorial faculty of other British Universities). We grade by final examination only (3 hours, unsighted, no choice of questions, independently invigilated, no course work assessments, no class attendance marks, no projects, and no graded off campus, out of sight assignments). Hence, tough but fair exams can be managed abroad (350 exam centres) and there is no argument in DL for liberalising the exam regime to make it easy for any student, foreign or domestic.

    The notion that soft exam and no exam regimes are the prerogative of degree mills is not the case at all. Well known universities, with full accreditation from reputable countries, indulge in various forms of erosion of standards. Nor is it the case that only 'government' run universities are suspect in these matters (though they certainly are not immune from them!).

    Hence, the Newcastle case is not unique. That the soft exam regime led to fraudulent regrading is to be expected. It will not happen at EBS.
     
  13. Yan

    Yan New Member

  14. adamsmith

    adamsmith member

    Yes, the Herriot-Watt is truely an extremely credible degree.

    I have heard many from the Asian region, where I am more familar, say they would never take a HW MBA because they would never pass! Their preference is always for the accredited school with a heavy emphasis on assignment assessment, computer based exams or open book exams (which can mean a variety of things!)

    In fact, one agent for an Australian MBA degree course in the Asian region advertises quite openly that there are 'no exams-assignment based only'. This agent understands their market well!

    Of course, many universities are critical of HW because they say that students are not stimulated to appreciate what they are learning, but simple learn to memorize to pass an exam. There is possibly some strength to this argument. However, from a credibility point of view, their degrees are A+ in my opinion and experience.
     
  15. Professor Kennedy

    Professor Kennedy New Member

    Yan

    No university in the UK has as many foreign students as Heriot-Watt University as a proportion of its total enrolment. No UK Business School as has many foreign students, absolute numbers and relative to domestic students, as Edinburgh Business School. Yet our exam standards have not changed in the years since 1991 when we opened for business. Our 'distinction' level passes are steady at about 7 per cent and our failure rate for each subject at each examination Diet is steady around 25 per cent (no, we do not norm the curve, etc.,).

    There is no excuse for lowering standards - it is fraudulent to those who rely on the institution's 'attestation of the fitness' of the named persons in their degree subjects.

    The financial incentive you allude to is a powerful element in the lowering of standards to maintain high completion rates (often for so-called "ranking purposes" and so-called "accreditation" designations). However, EBS does not charge different fees for different students. Those universities that do are usually government subsidised ("the man who pays the piper calls the tune") and obey the instruction to discriminate against non-European Union students by charging them higher fees.

    EBS fees are the same for home and non-EU students, with the exception that students from certain countries where per capita income is under USD3,500 are charged less than the rest of the world (a discrimination that is ethical, I believe).

    However, the lowering of standards in British universities is endemic to course for home students and not just a bye-product of foreign recruitment needs. The slide is from home debased standards to foreign degree courses and not the other way round. I have long argued on 'degreeinfo' against these trends and do so continually within the UK academic community. Recent events in plagiarism (and not just at Newcastle, NSW -- there are some nearby examples in Edinburgh!) are slowly waking people up to what they are allowing to happen. Even schools for children are spotting mass plagiarism of continuous assessment assignments.
     
  16. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

    Very interesting. I also struggle to get non-native speakers to write in their own words rather than using quotations to an excessive extent. But I have ascribed this to the language difficulties rather than to cultural differences. Thank you for this insight.

    On the other hand, I find the most incorrigible plagiarizers are typically U.S. born and bred. These are the students who don’t quote large sections of text verbatim, but rather do what we call “patchwriting” – stitching together snippets of text from other sources. In the past few years, I have found some students who seemingly cannot write any other way. I think that these students have grown up in the internet era, and have never had to write anything substantial that they didn’t assemble by patchwriting. In some cases, they refuse to accept that what they are doing is plagiarism. In other cases, they try to correct the problem – but they simply can’t write at a graduate level because they have been patchwriting consistently since high school!

    I find it disturbing.

    But perhaps the situation is no different than the situation that pertained shortly after calculators and computers became commonplace – and math teachers were no doubt complaining about students who had never learned to do arithmetic or to solve equations independently.
     
  17. adireynolds

    adireynolds New Member

    Agreed. Patchwriting as a technique is abysmal and blatant. Honestly, it takes less time to write something properly than to go to such an extent to get something on paper. Thank all the gods that ever existed that I came of age before the internet; I hold no great love for writing as it is, although I can write well (thanks to a lot of practice and perserverance).

    Hmm. After pondering this, I think I'd have to posit that the lack of writing ability amongst the youth of today is far more pernicious than a lack of independent mathematical computation (and yes, I learned math sans calculators and computers). Granted, mathematics is a language of its own in many respects, and is darned useful and applicable beyond pure math, but (don't hate me, all you math-folks out there!) I would argue that such a skill is not communication, per se. IOW, we don't usually ask each other to produce original, inborn mathematics concepts. Rather, computation is a skill used to solve problems, be they in the real-world or the classroom.

    However, writing reflects much more of our inner self, and I do not refer here to just creative writing. The care and craft I put into my academic writing speaks volumes (hopefully) about my standards of research, intellect, reasoning, and so on. Not being able to produce an original thought or idea on paper indicates, to me, sheer laziness, ignornance, or stupidity. These are not characteristics which should be highly prized, IMHO!
     
  18. Ike

    Ike New Member

    A Harvard professor too? The story is here.
     
  19. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

    Yes. I don’t teach a writing course, but (most often) a course on ethical issues and social impact of technology. I don't expect students to ascribe to any particular view, so I'm not much interested in their opinions per se, but in their thinking about the issues (and hopefully their thinking supports their opinions).

    If they plagiarize they are simply presenting someone else's thinking -- without needing to think about the questions for themselves. This is my major concern.
     
  20. adireynolds

    adireynolds New Member

    Oh, dear, oxpecker, you don't really expect kids today to actually think, do you? :D

    My apologies to all that are insulted by that remark . . . I'm in a rather curmudgeonly mood today (curmudgeatrix?).
     

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