Why an MBA May Not be Worth It

Article online from Fortune magazine:

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/careers/articles/0,15114,644753,00.html?promoid=cnn?yes=cnn

Quote from Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at the graduate business school at Stanford:

"There is little evidence that mastery of the knowledge acquired in business schools enhances people's careers," his study says ominously, "or that attaining the MBA credential itself has much effect on graduates' salaries or career attainment."

If any of you are AOM members, his original article that they reference is an interesting read -- sort of another one of those situations where some evidence to date battles hard with intuitive beliefs.

 

Great article. A must read for anyone considering an MBA. I esp like:

"No one disputes that an MBA from a highly prestigious school such as Harvard, Wharton, Chicago, or Stanford can lead to high pay, partly because of the great contacts students make there. Still, Pfeffer cites study after study strongly suggesting that this is because those schools are so hard to get into (and so costly once you get there), only the best and brightest fast-trackers have a shot. In other words, they are people who most likely would have succeeded whether they went to B-school or not. Overall, the evidence suggests that for most managers a couple of years of extra work experience, not more time spent in classrooms, will pay off better than a graduate business degree. "

Also be sure to read:

http://www.aomonline.org/

What yours truly has been saying all along

Just my opinion

 

Exactly

Rich kids with powerful connections go to Harvard - coincidently Harvard graduates are rich with powerful connections.

 

When I was finishing up my undergraduate studies in business management, a professor discouraged us from pursuing a masters degree for the following reason:

He said that studies show that those who have an undergraduate degree and who get involved in the community (with church on Wednesday nights and/or leading Cub Scouts and/or coaching students sports after school, etc...) will make just as much money as those who obtain a graduate degree. His words echoed in my mind for a long time.

 

I totally agree. You are absolutely 100% correct. Anyone who does not agree must be a mill shill.

 

Re: Re: Why an MBA May Not be Worth It

I believe he was right on the money. Excellent networking opportunities.



I have mentioned in other threads that I am looking into an MBA program that has a face to face component. I am in no hurry and it is no big deal if I never get an MBA. I am picky and demand the following:

1.RA. Could not care less if it is AACSB, ACBSP, or whatever. To me those agencies are just another level of bureaucracy designed for academics to impress each other.

2.Instructors that work in the REAL WORLD. Makes for good networking contacts since they work in the industry and are current.

3.Full time working pros as fellow students. I insist on knowing where the school draws students from. Had many American Express and airlines fellow students when I was in undergrad. Also makes good contacts for the future.

4.US school. I realize there are excellent foreign schools every bit as good as US. But I am not one of those that whine about US jobs being outsourced then buy foreign cars or go on foreign vacations. I am not outsourcing my education dollar.

I insist on face to face for the networking part. I made some really good life contacts in undergrad and hope to do the same if I go the MBA route. This article made sense. It is hard to turn down free education money but I really wonder if the effort to earn an MBA makes sense.

Just my opinion

 

Exactly. I have always maintained that the value of a top tier mba is the signal it sends. A million other schools have duplicated the curriculum, and students have swallowed it up. It's not the curriculum, it's the network.

I think it has changed slightly in recent years, as more and more specialized mba's pop up. Now it's often the case that an mba is more like a specialized masters (finance, accounting, entrepreneurship etc.). However, the model for the classic management mba is a little strange. The idea that you can go straight from undergrad and in two years of grad school emerge as a manager is absurd. Absurd, that is, unless you are coming from Harvard, Stanford etc., and there is another Harvard or Stanford grad on the hiring side who thinks such a transformation is indeed possible, since he or she did exactly the same thing.

 

A business associate of mine attended a school solely because many of his new classmates were managers at a major cruise line. His goal was to work for a cruise line. He did his homework and looked around until he found what he was looking for. Name, reputation of school, AACSB or not meant nothing to him as long as it was RA . The number one criteria was networking possibilities. He bonded well with his study group and ended up with a decent job at the cruise line, which was his primary goal in the first place. Hasn't even graduated yet! If he would have followed the traditional line (AACSB, top school etc) he most likely would not have made the contacts he did.

Needless to say his experiences made a big impact on my decision.

Just my opinion

 

I can't think of a top MBA program that is not AACSB accredited. Do you mind me asking what school he went with?

 

Sure. He went to the University of Phoenix. Never said it was a "top school", but it appears to be an excellent choice for those that are career oriented and want to network with like-minded individuals. I believe the students must be over 23 years old and work full time. Do AACSB schools require the same?

Anyhow it worked wonders for him!


If this is what I get from a "top school":

(from a previous post)

Quote from Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at the graduate business school at Stanford:

"There is little evidence that mastery of the knowledge acquired in business schools enhances people's careers," his study says ominously, "or that attaining the MBA credential itself has much effect on graduates' salaries or career attainment."


Methinks Stanford is a "top school" and AACSB. If this is what one of their own professors think of a "Top School" I'll pass!

Just my opinion

 

Well

All in all I would like to know how many MBA students go the same route as I have due to tuition reimbursement.

I approached my employer looking towards an M.Ed but was turned down since it did not match our policy for career advancement. I have been in my career, ground up to Sr. Mgmt for 20 years.

Was looking towards a Masters in Education so I could teach community college in my retirement years.

In my opinion MBA's are just about a dime a dozen. Remember the JD's in the 80's? Everyone had to be a lawyer and we ended up with plenty of $20K per year attorney's out chasing ambulances with $100K student loans.

I guess the old saying is true, one can all the paper in the world, the population can become more educated, but lack of common sense still runs rampant.

I for one agree with the article.

Now for Harvard and only the rich, they now tout an online Masters program. http://www.extension.harvard.edu/2003-04/programs/DistanceEd/progs/;jsessionid=NCJCAIPPCGBE.

 

Re: Well

It isn't as online as you may think.

I think it might be in $ Canadian, but I priced out their summer school including airfare and board and it would have cost $13,000. The Harvard ALM is not a bad deal if you live in Massachusetts.

 

Masters in Education

It is a misnomer to think that having a masters degree in education will qualify one to teach anything at the level of the community college. On the contrary, the regional accreditors have stipulated that a candidate must have 18 graduate-level credits in the disciplin that one wants to teach.

Having a masters in education would qualify the candidate to teach -- education, and nothing else!!!

 

Re: Masters in Education

I have found it more political to get a foot in the door at the CC, than Universities!

 

Me and Han

Ok, I ignorant in this area, please educate me.
Now if I would need 18 credits for a CC or 4 year.
What about online education such as AIU where I graduated,
UoP, AMU, or APUS?

Notice I stated retirement years, this would be part-time work not full time staff.

Thanks

 

As an example, let's say that you want to teach business at the cc level -- then you must have a minimum of 18 graduate-level credits in the business field. This is the minimum standard that has been established by the regional accreditors, but the cc can place higher standards ie. requiring that you have a masters degree or even a doctoral degree. This minimum standard is for those who want to teach the AA curriculum (and, btw, the bachelors curriculum also falls under this minimum standard).

The only way around this is if you want to teach for the AS curriculum, whereupon all you need is an AS degree in the field that you are going to teach. For example, if you have an AS in automotive mechanics, then you are qualified to teach autommotive mechanics at the AS level.

I used to think that having a masters degree in education would qualify me to teach anything, but I was mistaken!!!

 

The original article has some interesting analysis and conclusions on the value of the MBA degree. Here are my thoughts:

1. Unless a student goes to one of the top programs, graduating from a full-time MBA program with limited work experience does not result in increased pay or better career opportunities.

2. Part-time and distance learning programs may result in a better application of MBA knowledge to the workplace, as the student is both working and studying at the same time.

3. The article does not state the value of a MBA for a person with several years of work experience and specialist credentials such as an accounting designation or other professional certification. I am curious whether the general management orientation of the MBA degree would better prepare a functional specialist for management.

4. While the author gave some examples of MBA programs that are trying to address the shortcomings he identified, there isn't too much said about possible solutions. Hopefully, some more research will be done.

Thanks for reading,

Michael Weedon

 

Me Again

Thanks for the insight.
This is not the second time degreeinfo.com has helped me with information.

Enjoy and thanks again, me again.

 

Woops

Thou shall edit work before clicking submit button.

I mean this is the second time degreeinfo HAS helped