NO one probably will find this in the least bit interesting BUT: The University of New South Wales offeres two dissertation doctorates in law, the Ph.D. and the J.S.D. The degrees are actually significantly different. The degree programs each require an "original contribution" etc. BUT the J.S.D requires a shorter disstertation and more coursework than the Ph.D. I wonder if there is any difference in the utility of the degrees?
Well, Nosborne, the ol' nomenclature kook is a bit intrigued. ------- You know what I'd like to find would be a degree program in Roman law / civil law which would go from utter rudiments on up.
Uncle Janko, UNISA LLB students apparently begin their program by studying Roman Law. "The origins of South African law (FLS101-V) deals with the development of (a) Roman law (753BC - AD 565), (b) Canon law and the Medieval European law, (c) European ius commune and the English common law, (d) pre-colonial African law (history and oral traditions; legal systems and oral traditions), (e) colonial South African law, (f) post-colonial South African law and (g) human rights in South Africa. Foundations of South African law (FLS102-W) gives an overview of the origin and foundations of the law of property and the law of contract with reference to the interaction of the European legal heritage and the African legal tradition (reference will be made to comparable institutions in modern law)." http://www.unisa.ac.za/Default.asp?Cmd=ViewContent&ContentID=375 "syllabus: origin and foundations of south african law FLS101-V The origins of South African law (S1 and S2) Registration requirement for LLB: Introduction to the Theory of Law Purpose: to provide an overview of the origins of the South African legal system, focussing on the Western or European, the African and the human rights traditions. FLS102-W Foundations of South African Private law (S1 and S2)* Registration requirement for LLB: Introduction to the Theory of Law Purpose: to provide an overview of the Roman origin and foundations of the law of property and the law of obligations, with reference to the interaction of the various legal traditions studied in FLS101 and comparable institutions in modern South African law." http://www.unisa.ac.za/Default.asp?Cmd=ViewContent&ContentID=3155
Additional Auusie SJD arcania There turn out to be several Aussie law schools that offer both the PhD and SJD/JSD. Each takes pretty well the same position. The SJD carries the title "Doctor" but is considered to be a professional doctorate as opposed to a research doctorate. In some cases, the length of the required dissertation is MUCH shorter for the SJD than for the PhD but there is a significant coursework requirement. Several schools also offer the LL.D. based on published work, which I guess is the so-called "higher doctorate". Two schools now offer the J.D. as a 2-1/2 year postgrad degree to qualify the student for practice. It is very similar to the English "senior status" LL.B. except somewhat longer. Articles in Australia are significantly shorter than in England, so it makes sense, I guess. Anyway, I think it's the National University that states that the J.D. "is not a doctorate despite its nomenclature". Doubtless true, but why create the degree at all? Alas! NONE of these SJD programs can be done by D/L! BTW, I am not surprised to see that UNISA starts its LL.B. students with the Civil Law. South Africa is a "mixed" jurisdiction, deriving much of its private law from the Dutch, who are a Civil Law jurisdiction. I think it can be done by D/L but I don't see that it would be of much value outside South Africa because of their unique mix. I know of no English language D/L BCL program.
Re: Additional Auusie SJD arcania So the dime-a-dozen politicians with law degrees can validate their sense of self-importance.
TRY THIS UNCLE JANKO! http://www.le.ac.uk/ar/dl_research_degrees.htm "Acceptable thesis topics could be virtually anything relating to the wide-ranging research interests of the School's substantial staff of archaeologists and ancient historians, who constitute potential PhD supervisors." "Mr Duncan Cloud - (University Fellow) Roman history and Roman criminal law - More about Mr. Duncan Cloud" I am a Louisiana resident aiming for law school. Because of our civil law heritage, I have a particular interest in the subject and have saved this for later exploration. Good Luck!
Re: Additional Auusie SJD arcania Two schools now offer the J.D. as a 2-1/2 year postgrad degree to qualify the student for practice. It is very similar to the English "senior status" LL.B. except somewhat longer. Articles in Australia are significantly shorter than in England, so it makes sense, I guess. Interesting. Which two? Do you have web addresses? Anyway, I think it's the National University that states that the J.D. "is not a doctorate despite its nomenclature". Doubtless true, but why create the degree at all? Perhaps it's so career changers can switch to law without feeling like they're completely starting over? Alas! NONE of these SJD programs can be done by D/L! What about the two JD programs? BTW, I am not surprised to see that UNISA starts its LL.B. students with the Civil Law. South Africa is a "mixed" jurisdiction, deriving much of its private law from the Dutch, who are a Civil Law jurisdiction. I think it can be done by D/L but I don't see that it would be of much value outside South Africa because of their unique mix. I know of no English language D/L BCL program. It's interesting that you mention its international value. I'm curious whether a LL.B. from UNISA is a qualifying law degree in the West Indies, particularly if followed by a LL.M. from UWI or London. I know that's a bit obscure, but anyone know? -=Steve=-
Re: Re: Additional Auusie SJD arcania AS this struck me as very intriguing and as I'm horribly bored by the programming I'm doing . . . It seems that to be admitted to the bar in the West Indies you now have to pass a two-year Certificate of Legal Education at one of the four West Indies law schools before being admitted as either a barrister or solicitor. The requirement for admission to the certificate is either a UWI LlB or another qualifying LlB in the common law tradition. Unfortunately, as none of the four schools seem to have a decent web site between them, the definition of "common law tradition" is, um, vague at best. The best description I could find was an article in The Anguillan. http://www.anguillaguide.com/article/view/1686/1/133 Angela
I did not see that either of the Aussie J.D. programs is available by D/L. I also did not see any Aussie LL.B. by D/L, but I didn't look. I don't reall which two schools offer the J.D. but a Google search should turn them up easily enough. Re Louisiana and the Civil Law...the University of Louisiana law school now requires ALL entering law students to study for SEVEN semesters in residence vice the standard six. At the end of that time, the graduate receives a standard American J.D. plus a Bachelor of Civil Law (B.C.L.) degree. It used to be that a law student there had to choose which set of classes in property and obligations to take, depending on whether he wanted to stay in Louisiana or practice in another state. As always, in general, one should obtain one's first law degree in the country where one proposes to practice.
Just to round out the North American Civil Law info, there are two law schools in Canada that offer the so called national program (combined civil and common law): McGill University in Montreal and University of Ottawa. Quebec is of course the only province that is a civil law jurisdiction, and there are several universities that offer civil law only degrees in French. You do need a very good working knowledge of French to study any Quebec civil law. As far as I understand it, the program at Ottawa requires one year studied entirely in French. And on the topic of Australia: If memory serves University of Southern Queensland and Deakin University both offer distance learning LL.B. degrees.
Over lunch, I found out that Deakin, at any rate, offers a (four year, I think) D/L LL.B. If you did it right, you might be able to qualify for the California Bar with this degree since it is a four year program. The following is my SPECULATION and NOT to be accepted uncritically without additional, careful research: The holder of an accredited BA or AA or AS (to meet the prelaw education requirement) could sign up for the Deakin degree; register with the Cal Bar within 90 days of starting the study; keep a detailed time log of all studies to be able to prove that the annual minimum hours requirement is met; pass the Baby Bar after the first year; pass the General Bar after graduation. I don't think an American LL.M. would be necessary. It should work better than the London LL.B. because that is a three year degree, not a four year program, like Deakin (if I read it right). Deaken ALSO offers the "professional" S.J.D as well as the "research" Ph.D. in law, following the Austrailian model but neither doctorate is available by D/L. Interesting note: Deakin (and others) give estimated thesis word counts for the Ph.D. of 100,000 and the S.J.D. of 65,000.
