I need to be educated on this.... senior members, please respond?!?!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Han, Mar 14, 2004.

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  1. Han

    Han New Member

    OK, I have been reading posting after posting about Rich Douglas' dissertation/paper (what ever anybody wants to call it). I am a bit lost on why it is such a big deal, one person's research I mean. Can anybody (without so many personal attacks that it loses meaning to me) tell me what the hype is about this research?

    Here are some guesses, but I know I am off:

    Does it slam degree mills, so some are trying to slam him?

    Is it the first type of DL research out there?

    I have never understood why so many slam Rich, and I have even PMed him way back to find out, but it seems there is a great deal of history, so I stay at a distance usually, anyway.... what is the story on the dissertation (or whatever it is called).... inquiring minds need to know!
     
  2. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Dear Han

    With all the talk about the usefulness (or lack of usefulness) of various kinds of degrees--regionally accredited, DETC accredited, California approved, Caribbean accredited, and so on--it seemed very surprising to Rich and to me that there was no hard evidence, only anecdotal evidence.

    So four years ago, I bit part of that bullet by investing a few thousand dollars and lots of time to do a survey of collegiate registrars and admissions officers, on what they accepted (always, usually, sometimes, etc.). Those data were presented at the national registrars' convention the next year.

    Rich Douglas did something very similar with regard to the other major set of gatekeepers and decision-makers, corporate HR people. He was able to get hundreds of them to take quite a long questionnaire, giving their knowledge of these matters, and how they make decisions in their companies.

    This is tremendously valuable information, not just in the world of distance learning, but higher education in general, especially when compared with the "typical" narrowly-focused sort of thing people do to earn doctorates in education.*
    ________________________
    * For instance, these first hits from a simple Google search. All of othem (well, with one exception) doubtless academically sound and all that, but none of them exactly landmark studies, as I believe Rich's is.

    A Test of the Norms Challenging Model for Alcohol Abuse.Prevention in a University Greek System

    Black Knights, White Fortress: The Perceptions and_Leadership Strategies of African-American Deans in_Predominantly White Institutions_

    Effects of an Acquaintance Rape Prevention Program on Male_College Students' Endorsements of Rape Myth Beliefs and_Sexually Coercive Behaviors_

    International Students from Japan and their Lives in United_States Universities

    The Interaction of Orthographic and Pictorial Stimuli in Producing Meaning for Children

    Predicting Academic Success: An Investigation of Academically Deficient College Freshmen Subsequent to Reinstatement_

    Sociolinguistic Dimensions of Adjustment to the Academic_Discourse: A Qualitative Study of Ten Asian Students at an American University

    Effects of Rational Emotive Suggestions and Restricted Environmental Stimulation on Rational Thinking and Social Anxiety in College Students_
     
  3. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    I have a copy of Rich's dissertation that I obtained from Rich. The "controversy" has far more to do about certain people's personal feelings about Rich than it has to do about his research.

    Rich's dissertation is a study of the level of recognition and acceptance of different types of acreditation (RA, NA, international and non-recognized) and certain representative schools accredited by these agencies. The subjects were human resources professionals.

    Rich's findings affirmed that human resource professionals are largely uninformed about the different types of accreditation. He also found that agencies and schools with "familiar" sounding names (like Columbia Southern) are often more accepted by HR professionals than those with "unfamilar" names (like Capella). Although degree mills are mentioned in his literature search, Rich's dissertation is not really about degree mills. It does, however, provide very useful data in an area where almost no research exists (the purpose of a dissertation).

    Some have mentioned that Union has had difficulties with the quality of some of its dissertations, and it was likely that some Anti-Douglas folks would try to insinuate (or even declare) that Rich's dissertation must be substandard. I have served on several academic/research/thesis advisory committees and have read many dissertations from several universities (all RA and all well-regarded). Rich's work is definately comparable to those.

    Tony Piña
    Faculty, Cal State U. San Bernardino
     
  4. fnhayes

    fnhayes New Member

    I have a copy of Rich's dissertation that I obtained from Rich. The "controversy" has far more to do about certain people's personal feelings about Rich than it has to do about his research.


    Anthony, This is simply not a factual statement.
    If the RC dissertation is so revealing and of real value perhaps you can tell us why it has been locked away and will likely never see the light of day.
    Dr Anatidae (Knightsbridge)
     
  5. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Is it known whether those "gatekeepers and decision-makers, corporate HR people" were people having knowledge of the varieties of schools/degrees? Sometimes they are but some manager stuck in some slot for some period of time.
     
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    It isn't. You're wrong. What is sad is you know it. :rolleyes:
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    But that's the point, isn't it? I attempted to measure the the acceptability of degrees to these people, which reflected their lack of knowledge in these matters. The purpose was to measure what degree holders face.
     
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Han:

    I'm a senior member, so I guess I qualify to answer.

    There is very little interest in my dissertation or its findings. But there is a bit of interest in personal attacks by a few people, some of whom have even gone to the trouble to (try to) steal my work. I find it baffling, too.
     
  9. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I'm curious what "Dr." Anatidae is going to say once Rich's real dissertation is made available on UMI?
     
  10. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Han

    Unlike myself, Rich has managed to irritate a large group of people with abrasive posting. He has repeated used words like liar, fraud etc. etc.

    I used to waste my time defending him but gave it up because he enjoys the fight more than anything else.

    It has nothing to do with accredited/unaccredited/degree mill or any other category of school. People of all stripes say nasty things about the gentleman. It would stop soon if the obnoxious opinions of others stopped. End of story.
     
  11. Han

    Han New Member

    Re: Re: I need to be educated on this.... senior members, please respond?!?!

    Rich - It sounds very interesting (the dissertation, not the other stuff). I know I think my HR department doesn't know much about schools or accreditation, just "who they have heard of".

    I guess another question, some people have a copy, some people don't. Will it be available to buy in the future. I would like to get a copy and give it to my HR department.

    Going through the process of a dissertation, I understand it is a very long process, but this would be great to read about.

    Thanks all for the information, I don't feel so lost anymore!
     
  12. Lajazz947

    Lajazz947 New Member

    Rich Douglas

    Rich,

    Why do you care so much about what this board thinks? I have never seen your dissertation but I would imagine that it is a fine piece of work that took years to research at an RA school that despite it's problems has to have met SOME sort of standard to recieve accreditation. I would love to read it as I am very interested in your field of study.

    I always laugh at the accreditation snobs on this board that refute anything that does not meet the standards that THEY set. I say they set because we all accept varying degrees ( no pun intended ) of accreditation. In the end unless you are going to prove something to the powers that be in academia or the corporate establishment in senior mangement the degree is as usefull as you want to make it, accredited or not. And this board KNOWS it.

    The knowledge you get from your work is the real value, not the opinion and acceptance from this board. I know you teach at some school without accreditation.

    My opinion is that you should do what you want, study where you want and last but not least be proud of WHATEVER work you do whereever it is done. This is why the likes of FNHAYES and his work do not offend me in the least. Could he have done the work at an RA schools? Maybe, did he? No. Who cares? Some on this board. Is it a creditable work? Some have said it is, I have not read it.

    If yours or anyone else's work is a lie then the only one who suffers is the person lying by not really learning anything, no one else. I commend you on a Doctorate.

    Rafael
     
  13. MarkIsrael@aol.com

    [email protected] New Member

    Dennis Ruhl wrote:

    > [...] Rich has managed to irritate a large group of people with
    > abrasive posting.
    [...] People of all stripes say nasty things
    > about the gentleman.


    I don't think so. I like Rich. Can you name a single person of the "RA or no way" stripe who dislikes Rich?
     
  14. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Oh there's a few but then again they haven't been personally attacked.
     
  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Here fnhayes is attacking Rich because he apparently doesn't understand how real schools work. This is an excellent example of the type of lies and attacks made against Rich and his work. I'm really lost trying to understand this. I guess it has to do with Rich being an academic expert in the field?
     
  16. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member


    I thought Rich attacked Dr. Hayes. I definitely have to learn how to reason with the use of a mirror.
     
  17. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Name one.
     
  18. Han

    Han New Member

    I now understand what the dissertation issue is all about, thanks to all!

    From an outsider’s view, I can say that Rich has been nothing but helpful, respectful, and informative about many issues in the threads I have been a part of this last year or two. I am sure this thread will continue past what I see as needed for the original intent, but that is OK, since I got the whole thing started with the question, but got the answer I was looking for.

    Rich, thanks for the response. Hopefully this whole thing is not getting you down, all the postings might be helping from a publicity aspect (wanted or not). There is not doubt there is a great deal of interest out there. It will be nice to see it when it is available!
     
  19. Han

    Han New Member

    Rich - You said on college hints to e-mail [email protected] if I wanted a copy of your dissertation. I did, and got an interesting response, so wanted to make sure I e-mailed you, and not someone else??????
     
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I've answered Han. BTW, this is a post better placed in a PM rather than here.
     

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