Passion of the Christ

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Tireman4, Feb 17, 2004.

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  1. Tireman4

    Tireman4 member

    Dear All,

    I am not trying to stir up trouble, but am I curious to your opinions. Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ will open February 25, 2004. As a historian, I believe that anything presented in a manner that can teach and that viewers can learn is acceptable. I was just wondering how many of my fellow board members will see this movie. I am aiming this at everyone, especially those who are learning about biblical history and such. Thank you for your opinions. Also, I wonder how these issues could be incorporated into classroom setting, distance or otherwise.
     
  2. roysavia

    roysavia New Member

    Mel Gibson is a conservative catholic. My guess is that his inspiration and direction of this film is based on pre-Vatican II doctrine. I honestly don't know if this movie will inspire all Christians.
     
  3. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I'm not a Christian, but I do have interests in antiquity, religion and contemporary culture. This movie has definitely caught my interest, not least because of the obvious passion of Mel Gibson. It's clearly something that he cares very deeply about.

    So yes, I do intend to see it. Assuming that I can find a screen showing it. I live in the SF bay area and have heard that its distributor is avoiding localities where it might draw protests.

    Is its depiction of Christ's last days historically accurate? Who can say?

    Is it consistent with the Bible account? I'll leave that to the horde of Degreeinfo Bible students.

    Does it accurately illustrate what's known of the small details of life in that time and place? I'd have to see it and hear the opinions of the experts.

    Is it anti-Semitic? I'd have to see it before I can form any opinion on that.

    Can it be used in teaching? I suppose so. That would depend a lot on the teacher's ingenuity. It could be used to illustrate anything from Christian religious beliefs through ancient life and times to contemporary cultural controversies, I guess, with greater or lesser accuracy.
     
  4. skidadl

    skidadl Member

    Mel Gibson is a conservative catholic. My guess is that his inspiration and direction of this film is based on pre-Vatican II doctrine. I honestly don't know if this movie will inspire all Christians.


    __________________
    Roy Savia



    i would think it would be a bit prejuduce to assume this before you saw the movie.

    maybe it is a straight bible teaching account from the gospels? who knows?
     
  5. pugbelly

    pugbelly New Member

    In 3 articles I've read concerning this movie, it doesn't appear as though doctrine has much part in it at all. The movie seems to be written true to the Biblical account. Catholic doctrine (Papal authority and tradition) seem to have no part in it at all. In what I've read, Catholics and Protestants, including the Pope and Billy Graham, were permitted to view the film. Both were moved and both felt that it was true to the Biblical account. Yes, Gibson is an Old Catholic. Ironically, his wife is a devout protestant. The film should serve to inspire Catholics and protestants that believe the Biblical record.

    Tony
     
  6. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    IIRC, Mel Gibson is a schismatic conservative Roman Catholic, not part of the mainstream RC church. His father, Hutton Gibson, is a notorious anti-Semite, active in a number of right-extremist organizations such as Liberty Lobby, etc. Young Gibson, out of misplaced pietas at best and God knows what at worst, has never repudiated his father's views.

    Pugbelly, you are mistaken. Mel Gibson is definitely NOT an Old Catholic. The only US church in communion with Utrecht is the Polish National Catholic Church. Mel Gibson is not PNC. There are a number of independent congregations and free-lance bishops who call themselves Old Catholic or Old Roman Catholic. Many of them are gay. Most take more liberal stands than the RC church on divorce, married clergy, etc. None is noted for anti-Semitism. While I regard them as the worst sort of ecclesiastical mountebanks, they are essentially harmless in matters of Judenhass and are definitely out of Hutton Gibson's noxious loop.

    I saw the brief clip on Gibson's website. What I saw was pornographically violent.

    Is the movie anti-Semitic? I do not know. Is Mel Gibson anti-Semitic? He denies this. However, given his unrepudiated ideological/theological background, and given the use of the devotional books (putting it kindly) by Anna Maria Emmerich as a major source for the movie, it is very hard to give it, or him, the benefit of the doubt.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2004
  7. pugbelly

    pugbelly New Member

    I stand corrected with regard to Gibson's church affiliation.
     
  8. pugbelly

    pugbelly New Member

    Regarding his potentially antisemetic views: I see no reason to believe he holds antisemetic views. In the new Newsweek he states: "It's a sin." He believes we all (humans) nailed Christ to the cross.
     
  9. BoogieRambler

    BoogieRambler Member

    Yes, I plan on seeing the movie.
     
  10. GENO

    GENO New Member

    I wonder if this movie has any parallel to The Last Temptation of Jesus by Nikos Kazantzakis?
     
  11. skidadl

    skidadl Member

    janko said: IIRC, Mel Gibson is a schismatic conservative Roman Catholic, not part of the mainstream RC church. His father, Hutton Gibson, is a notorious anti-Semite, active in a number of right-extremist organizations such as Liberty Lobby, etc. Young Gibson, out of misplaced pietas at best and God knows what at worst, has never repudiated his father's views.

    wow janko,

    i sure hope you wouldn't over simplify the lack of disagreement that mel has with his father. i'm sure mel knows the complex issue of hashing out his family matters in public i but better than me or you. why would he want to come out and defend or disagree with his father in the media eye? what would be the profit of getiing more media stir and tention between him and his family? to me it's his personal issue to be taken up with his father. not d. sawyer or us.
     
  12. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I do plan on seeing the movie, even though I'm a lapsed Protestant that hasn't been to church in years, other than weddings and funerals.

    From what I've seen & read, it's very true to the biblical account of history. Unfortunately, most people have never read the entire Bible (I have), and don't realize that it's a very violent book in many places.
     
  13. cbryant

    cbryant New Member

    I do plan on seeing this movie and my hope and prayer is that it is accurate to the biblical account. However I did read an article today about worries of anti-semitism and the movie making it out that the Romans did not want to put Christ to death.

    My response is, you cannot change historical events because of painting a people group in a negative light. There have been many events in history that paint christians, americans (of all races and colors) etc in a negative light but we shouldn't change history in movies just because certain people groups would be offended.

    According to scripture it was the Jewish religous leaders who wanted Christ put to death (historical fact based on the christian bible). This does not imply that ALL jews of the day wanted him put to death. Also, according to scripture Pilot found no fault in Jesus yet he gave the crowd a choice to release him or Barabas and the crowd chose barabas and Rome carried out the death order.

    Christians (real believing christians) believe it was our sin that killed Christ, but this would be more appropriate for another discussion group.

    cbryant
     
  14. kevingaily

    kevingaily New Member

    I plan on seeing it.

    One valid point to make is that the common Jewish folks admired and followed Jesus. It was the leaders, and not all of them, that gave the most grief. As a matter-of-fact, the reason he was arrested secretly is so that there wouldn't be an uprising by the people of Judea who many believed him to be the son of David and the Messiah, others a prophet, but as I said he was looked up to by the common people.

    Therefore, if they(the movie) portray the leaders angst and envy, but show the people to be generally accepting, then it will be a true Biblical account and not anti-semetic. If, however, the movie paints that the Jews, in general, hated him, then I'd suspect something....
     
  15. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Well, if I were the son of a prominent Jew-hater and Holocaust denier (which Hutton Gibson is on public record as being), and if I were being accused of anti-Semitism based in part upon my being identified (by my own actions, mind, not genetic guilt-by-association) with my father's political and religious views, and if I were if fact, somehow, despite all that, NOT an anti-Semite, I would be at pains to say something like "I love my father but I am horrified by his views."

    Regrettably enough, my father's army unit helped liberate camps in Germany toward the end of the Second World War, and, sadly, I am perhaps blinded by having a decent human being for a father. Somehow, I'll cope.

    I will not see this movie and have advised my parishioners not to see it--not least because their money would be going to enrich a man whose version (per-version?) of Roman Catholicism is filled with hatred toward our church. Just as we are not anti-Semites, so also we are not masochists.
     
  16. pugbelly

    pugbelly New Member

    Uncle Janko said: I will not see this movie and have advised my parishioners not to see it

    My comment: I'm truly sorry you feel that way. Perhaps a better way of handling the situation, considering your views, would be to see the movie and then educate your parishioners as to anything that strayed from the Biblical record. Instead, by not seeing the movie, you will be forced into a position of ignorance. Worse, you will be urging your parishoners to do the same. :(
     
  17. Dr. Gina

    Dr. Gina New Member

    I plan on seeing it, and then passing judgement later on. Historically, the Romans enjoyed violence as a society and as a form of entertainment, so I would imagine that any violence shown would have been representative of the level of violence towards prisioners, ect... that the Romans used as punishment.
     
  18. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    I want to see it.

    But I don't understand Gibson not agreeing, when it was suggested, to put some sort of postscript at the end as: "This film is not blaming the Jewish people for the death of Jesus."

    In the interview of 2-18-04, on national TV, Gibson said as much: that he was not blaming Jews. He also said that he believed that millions of Jews did die in the holocaust.

    The New Testament is full of expressions which imply that the writers hold no grudge against the Jews. Even Paul, who is said to be sent to Gentiles, in Philippians 3, expresses pride at being Jewish. In Romans 9 he professes love for Jews. He reminds his Roman readers , mostly Gentiles, in chapter 11, that God has not rejected the Jews. He reminds the Ephesian Christians in chapter two of that Letter that they are newcomers to a status long enjoyed by Israel. Peter, likely writing to dispersed Jewish Christians , calls them chosen by God's foreknowledge and inheritors of the predictions of the prophets of ancient Israel--not of the divinings of some Grecian sage. Years before, in Acts 2, Peter had urged thousands of Jews to join him in the new faith. It cannot be argued, therefore, that the apostles thought God had a particular grudge against the Jews!


    And Gibson says that he believes what these apostles wrote. So , Gibson could truly portray that some Jewish leaders and a Jewish mob wanted Christ's death. That's in the Gospels. But also in the Gospels practically all who loved and followed Jesus were Jews. So, in view of the apostolic love for Jews , why not give the movie such a PS as: "This movie is not blaming the Jewish people for the death of Jesus" ???


    I understand in one scene ,where the nails are driven into Jesus' hands, that Gibson , himself, held the spike, while the camera rolled. All Christians should confess that they had a part in causing His passion too---not just a Jewish mob!

    That is what the Faith says: "While we were sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I will reserve judgement until I see it. I think this is the sensible approach.
     
  20. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    My 15 year old daughter came and talked to me about it. She very much wants to see it. What I have read about it so far leads me to believe it paints an accurate picture of the historical portion of the film. I have not yet been able to decide if it is appropriate for a 15 year old.
     

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