I was new to the game last semester, and I had some disrespectful students last semester. What would your thoughts be when (senior level class) a student gets out of line, throw them out of class for that session, thrown them out of all classes, turn them into the dean? Just trying to think outloud for this semester, starts on Monday!
I had a similar problem. Disrespectful students usually make the learning environment uncomfortable for those who seriously want to succeed. My suggestion is that you report them to your facilitator and the department head. Another suggestion is to write a very strong letter to the dean of the department. Nearly all universities and colleges have strict guidelines in place to prevent students from getting out of line. You may need to "follow up" on your letter by giving the dean a phone call. Failing this, perhaps advise these students that you are willing to take legal action if by the end of the course, the learning outcome was derailed because of their behavior.
At Torquemada we weren't allowed to DO anything (self-esteem or Vatican Two-and-a-Half or diiiiialogue or sumpin), so I used to ask the other students if they paid their own tuition or were on anything less than full scholarship. Most of the hands--or all--would go up. Then I asked them, "how much of your money and your time are you prepared to let this gentleman waste?" This usually worked. I still recall one other kid standing up once and saying that he was from NWFP in Pakistan and where he came from somebody would have clobbered the heckler with a rifle butt. Now THAT I had to explain in a faculty meeting once it got out--that I personally wasn't advocating such a course of action, but that I did not want to be culturally insensitive by criticising the proposal unduly. Kristie, never give an inch. Never let them hear you sweat. You'll do fine.
Anyone who has ever taught a class, even at the graduate school level let alone college level, can identify with your question. Almost every class has at least one "problem student," one know-it-all who thinks that he or she knows more than everyone else, including the teacher. But I would caution against action that is too hasty. In many cases a student's poor behavior is due to inflated ego, but in some cases it is due to the student having attention deficit disorder (ADD or ADHD). As a general rule, I let a student slide for one class or until the first break in a class (unless the conduct is so heinous that it demands immediate attention, then pull him or her aside privately and try to determine whether there is an ADHD situation or another learning disability. If so, I address this with the student up front - most ADD'ers can handle it. As anyone who has ever taught in a religious institution can also tell you, this problem is also pervasive in theologically-oriented classes. There will always be one student who thinks that he or she has the truth when it comes to the meaning of life - and that no one else does. Whether I have to do it priately or publically, I establish clearly that my classes are not to be evangelistic, and that they are not an environment in which students may proselytize. We are, of course, in an age in which many students were taught their bad behavior before they ever got to college (or in college, before they got to grad school). I do not hesitate to tell them, again privately or publically if necessary, that my time and the class time belong to everyone, not just to them. And although I never require the use of the title, when necessary I remind them that I'm the guy whose name begins with Doctor, and that there's a reason that I'm the one at the front of the classroom instead of him or her. There is a fine balance between a class functioning as a democracy (after all, they are paying to be there) and a theocracy (some professors are as obnoxious as the worst student). Uncle Janko's advice, "Never let them hear you sweat," is an excellent suggestion. I would add to that, if you have to "reprove, rebuke, or exhort" a student - especially if public - make it funny. If you can't make the student laugh, make everyone else laugh. Barring anything else being successful, toss the little whacko out on his or her butt (figuratively speaking). Even at the most liberal, student-rights-oriented institution, there's no reason that you have to go above and beyond the call. Ever. And providing that you're using sound judgment, I can't think of any institution that will have a problem with that unless the institution can make a prima facia case that you're being discriminatory in your disciplinary practices. Now go out there and kick some ass.
I agree we all get our share of these students. Onetime I had a group that didn't want to be in a class. It was not a lot of fun but you gotta deal with it right away. John
We are talking about college students, right? Why on earth would anyone put up with crap from college students, heck, I wouldn't put up with it if I was teaching the 7th grade. Alas, I am not a teacher and don't know the finer points of scholarly political correctness. I however, would not worry about ADD or ADHD or anything else. I'd bump them out if possible after one verbal warning. That's fair. As a parent paying for a kid's education, I don't want it derailed, even a little, because of the bigmouth sitting on the other side of the room . Education is a priviledge, not a right. Anyone disrupting a class is stealing from the others there to learn, and paying dearly for the priviledge to be there. But I defer, what do I know, I'm just footing the bills.
Exactly. The question is, what are you? A presumably qualified nurse going for his or her bachelor's degree in psychology. But that's okay - your attitude is typical of the same type of "problem student" we're talking about - the unqualified person who thinks that he or she is a know-it-all, pontificating against several expert opinions that have been offered thus far. Now get out. Now. No second chance. If you can't behave civilly, exit this forum. You will receive a refund from the bursar's office. See? That's your solution, extended in a logical way to a forum know-it-all. And showing patience would have had nothing to do with being politically correct, it would have to do with fulfilling your responsibility of a teacher of all students and getting tot he root of any potential problem. Moreover, it is a more compassionate approach, and is more observant of the Amdericans with Disabilities Act (if there is a learning disablity involved). Hey, it's cool . . . you may re-take your seat. And learn your lesson well. I trust you will develop a better sense of understanding as you continue to work to the point where you are more than a "bachelor's degree student." And in the meantime, don't feel alone. There may be "one in every class," but here on degreeinfo.com, you are one of many. That's why the real experts are here.
Hi Steve - You are right, I am nobody. I am not an educator, just a student and the parent of a student. I would hope that I would still be allowed to voice an opinion here since I seem to notice that most posters are allowed to speak. The question was about disrespectful students. I believe that an instructor has the right to control their class. I would assume (as do you) that many disrespectful students learned the behavior from many years of getting away with it in other classes because they were not handled correctly and allowed to behave that way because someone somewhere said they had the right to be there, disrespect and disruptive behavior excused. However, by the time one is old enough to be in college, he/she should understand the consequences of their actions once warned, that is the way it is in the real world. I appreciate your levity though. I defer to your expertise, like I said, what do I know? I feel like a real senior member of the board now, I've been admonished. I'm a little confused though, didn't you tell the poster to go "kick some ass" in your post? I believe our positions are more congruent than might be apparent. For now, teach, I'm staying put.
Seekinghelp - Thank you for the response, though it is not that simple. I caught a student cheating last semester, and learned there is an entire process, not just "I caught you, F!". There is now panels, review boards, and many other things. Gone are the days it was easy. I wish everybody was similar in their respect, but not yet. I have students ranging from 19-seniors. Ironically it is the older crowd that I have trouble with (being under 30 may be the problem).
Even in the corporate world it's not that easy either. For example, someone who is continually late may have substance abuse problems, family issues or another problem that impacts their work life. Even if it's just "I can't seem to come in on time" unless you have a standing policy stating work hours (e.g. 9-5) you're stuck. In the corporate world HR rules supreme - and unless there is a specific policy stating that an employee's conduct is unacceptable (e.g. can't bring guns to work, can't fight with co-workers, can't sexually harass staff members) you're on thin ice trying to fire or discipline someone without trying to identify the root cause and go through MANY steps. The days of "I don't like your clothes, you're fired" are gone as litigation against prior employees rises. (For those of you watching The Apprentice I wonder how many times Donald Trump has been sued by past employees ) In academia, I seem to recall that many institutions implement an honor code that pertains to dress standards, academic honesty, etc. Are there any rules that state what is acceptable behavior, and what disciplinary actions may be taken? Or is it discretionary based upon the findings of the panels and review boards? Do students have to sign something agreeing to comply with standards of honesty and conduct? When I joined with my current firm I had to sign an employment agreement. Cheers, Mark
Well, Kristie, I wish you luck in your endeavors this semester. I'm surprised the older students give you trouble. When I was in school the older students seemed to be the only ones who participated and made the classes fun. I don't remember anyone ever giving a prof problems. Even the young ones seemed to basically sleep through class rather than make actual problems for anyone but themselves. And I was fortunate to have some excellent teachers who were interesting and helpful. Perhaps things are a little different in the gentle south. I do remember one girl cheating during a history test and being immediately dismissed from the class, caught red handed with a cheat sheet during the exam, never saw her in school again. I appear to be politically incorrect, but I think this was the correct answer to her cheating. Best wishes this semester.
In any instance whether workplace or educational environment you will be limited by established, practiced, and management supported policies and actions. One of the basic tenants is the notification to all that these policies exist and the manner of enforcement. Until you have conveyed the expectations to the students the first day may be tough. From that point on exact the standard that was established, be it verbal admonishment or worse. I expect adults to act like adults and they can expect to be treated like adults. Including being asked to leave. Oh yeah..Kick on Steve...
I agree with Fed, the keys may lie in policy, and in being direct about what behavior is acceptable and in clearly stating what the consequences for unacceptable behavior are. In one class I took at San Antonio College, the teacher said on the first day that anyone who did not show up to class with the home work assignments completed and on his desk by the time class started, he would immediately drop them from the course. He carried a supply of drop slips in his breast pocket, just so they would be handy. The first day of class he gave an assignment, due the next time class met. One student did not complete the assignment. As he had promised, the teacher filled out a drop slip, gave it to the student, and kicked her out of the classroom. In this case it was early enough in the semester for the dropped student to get a 100 percent refund. I don't know if the teacher would have dropped a student later in the semester, but the situation never arose again. Everyone always turned in their assignments on time from that point on. Maybe that was the point. The point I'm trying to make is that the teacher stated exactly what his policy was, the consequences for failing to comply, and he followed it up by enforcing the consequences. In your case, exactly what policies and consequences are appropriate will probably take some thought and input from administrators. I also agree with Steve. I think that you should establish why the student is disruptive first. There may be bigger issues involved. It's probably best to find out what you can and cannot do before you take action. Furthermore, it may be nobler to try to teach the disruptive students than it is just to kick them out, unless they just push you and the other students too far. In the meantime, show every new class that you keep a fresh supply of drop slips handy. Tell them that you're not afraid to use them, if need be.
