Is the PhD what it once was?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by oxpecker, Jan 12, 2004.

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  1. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

  2. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    IMO, the article is right on target. Thanks for posting it.
     
  3. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    The author seems to think that the D Phil (if you're dark blue-what does THAT mean?) is beginning to follow a "professional school" model.
     
  4. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    I believe that the term "dark blue" is a reference to Oxford.
    Jack
     
  5. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    A dead Jebbie (well, he's dead now) at Torquemada told me that 100+ years ago, something akin to the "put in your time" model was standard for German doctoral degrees. A responsible project had to be completed under strict supervision, but not necessarily of great (or determinedly obscure) originality, and the results--often written up in Latin!--were presented in dissertations of 85-110 pages in length. Whether any of this is accurate I don't know, but it's a different model w/o question.
     
  6. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    I hear many say that the advent of online and electronic databases and the Internet itself has made the dissertation process much easier and, therefore, less rigorous.

    The university where I completed my doctoral work was small and grants less than a dozen doctorates per year. I have had the chance to read quite a few of the dissertations and have noticed an increase in the quality of the dissertations. This is undoubtedly due to the arrival of department faculty with higher standards.

    On the other hand, I recently read the dissertation of a colleague who received his doctorate in the same field as mine (but at a much larger university that shall remain nameless). I was, frankly, stunned at the simplicity and lack of rigor of the study. It would have made, in my opinion, a decent MA thesis. I became envious--had I enrolled there, I could have completed my dissertation in less than half the time. On the other hand, I probably would have received half the education.

    Tony Pina
    Faculty, Cal State U. San Bernardino
     
  7. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    While I have no personal knowledge on this topic it would not surprise me if the ideas expressed in the article were generally true everywhere. On this forum we have seen more than one thread related to the idea of earning multiple doctoral degrees. I would wonder if this "inflation" was related to the ideas expressed in the article?
    Jack
     
  8. Ike

    Ike New Member

    I am not sure whether the standard has lowered but it is still adaunting and an elusive undertaking for many who choose to pursue research doctorates in the United States. This Chronicle article may help to corroborate and elucidate my point.

    Ike Okonkwo, PhD
     
  9. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Good article. I wonder, though, if the problem isn't even more basic than the writer suggests.

    Undergrads do not really experience what Reseach with a capital R really is until after they start graduate training, really, not until they complete their graduate coursework, which takes a couple of years at least. The ability and desire to do Research is maybe rarer that we realize? So the student discovers that Research really isn't where he wants to spend his professional life. So he drops out.

    Just a thought.
     
  10. GENO

    GENO New Member

    Right on - maybe all that enter a doctoral program are not cut out to be researchers but highly capable of completing doctoral course work. So I think that the degree needs to be redefined. What about splitting the PhD into a academic/practitioner degree and one of a researcher. One could complete a breath of studies in 2 years than spend a year on depth in a particular subject then pass comps and then be awarded a PhD. This would be the academic/practitioner side. If a research doctorate is chosen then the candidate would continue with research and once completed would be awarded a Phd with research in a subject. That way there is light at the end of the tunnel for most.
    A research topic that will generate interest is a major hurdle to overcome and could well be the final blow to ones hopes.

    One persons thoughts.
     
  11. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Hi Geno: The wheel has been invented. It's called the doctor of arts degree. Sadly, a rare bird. Wish I had one.
     
  12. GENO

    GENO New Member

    Hi Unc, yes indeed a rare one at least in the US. Pete Rose bets that you can't name 5 schools that award the DA.
     
  13. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    This is off the top of my head (RA only):
    George Mason University
    University of Illinois at Chicago
    Idaho State University
    Clark Atlanta University
    University of North Dakota
    University of Mississippi
    SUNY at Stony Brook (?)
    Ball State University
    University of Miami
    Trevecca Nazarene University
    Syracuse University (?)

    Recently discontinued at
    Middle Tennessee State University

    New DA program to be started at
    University of Western Sydney [Australia]

    There are a few others, but not many. This wasn't checked for completeness or currency. J.
     
  14. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    None being distance programs.
     
  15. AlnEstn

    AlnEstn New Member

    Doesn't anybody want to mention Trinity's DL Doctor of Arts Program????????????
    Just joking. . . . :D :D :D
     
  16. GENO

    GENO New Member

  17. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Doctor of Arts = DA

    I got quite a few hits in Google for the Doctor of Arts Degree (DA). It appears to be more of a professional degree, as I saw a lot of DA degrees in biology, chemestry and music. Some websites also state that the DA offers more latitude in choosing a dissertation.
     
  18. GENO

    GENO New Member

    me again, did you go to USF in Tampa or Sarasota/Bradenton?
     

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