Having read a number of threads that discuss first professional degrees and DETC, I am interested in pursuing the discussion further about the Psy.D. It seems to me this would meet the first professional degree requirements for DETC for a number of reeasons. First, all states that license psychologists rerquire the doctorate. They do not license pscyhologists with master's degrees. Yes there are some states who license psychometrists and psychological associates, but those are not considered equal to a licensed psychologist. Based on this thinking, the Psy.D. seems a logical candidate for DETC accreditation. Would love to hear further discussion. The MBA and MDiv seem to negate those options for DBA and Dmin because you can enter the profession with the earlier degrees.
IIRC, every state requires a doctorate from a school accredited by the American Psychological Association, or a regionally accredited school that is substantially in compliance with APA standards. I would expect the APA to raise hell if DETC graduates were eligible for licensing, as well as the RA schools that offer DL Psychology programs.
I agree that the Psy.D looks like a professional degree. but only in the way that an Ed.D is a professional degree. The Psy.D and Ed. D both have significant academic research components, don't they?
The Psy.D and Ed.D. are not considered first professional degrees as defined by DETC in their Handbook or by the USDOE.
While a PsyD is generally considered to be "practitioner-oriented" (as opposed to the "research-oriented" PhD) it does require a dissertation. Jack
Yes the Ed.D. Has a substantial research component. My dissertation was over 240 pages and included discriminant analysis, cluster analysis, and several anovas. I also understand the Psy.D. has a research component. I was just making the comparison as a first professional degree (e.g. you cannot become a psychologist without a doc).
Although the Ed.D. was originally formulated as a professional degree, it has become identical to the Ph.D. in education at all but a few universities. It requires virtually the same coursework and nearly always requires a Ph.D.-like dissertation. There appears to be a somewhat more substantive difference between the Psy.D. and Ph.D. in psychology. I have seen a couple of Psy.D. programs (NYU, for example) that do not require a dissertation. Tony Piña Faculty, Cal State U.-San Bernardino
I guess I am missing the point of a first professional degree. In my mind, a first professional degree is one that grants you the permission to apply for license and enter the profession. One cannot be a licensed psychologist without a doctorate. It doesn't matter about the dissertation, it matters about the doctorate. If this is accurate, the Psy.D. would meet the requirements for first professional degree. Yes I understand the power and influence of the APA, however, that does not minimize the concept of first professional degree in my mind. Under the strictest of definitions, the Psy.D. would meet the requirements of DETC.
Psy.D. degree Folks, I just typed up a bunch of stuff and I got bumped off with a statement that I was not logged on. I did log on!!! That is frustrating. I lost all my long post. This should get changed by the operators of the forum. __________________ Since I'm already tired and I don't want to type a lot any longer here is a short version: Psy.D. degrees were created to accomodate more practical aspects of clinical issues versus research with the Ph.D. in Psychology. About 10 states require APA programmatic accreditation to sit for their boards. Most states require at a minimum a psychology doctorate from a regionally accredited schoo. DETC won't cut it. Maybe wacky California will accept it but that is the exception. Make sure you choose a doctorate program (Psy.D. or Ph.D.) that is regionally accredited and follows the APA style of training for licensure qualification (required coursework, practicum, internship, supervision, etc.). The best is to choose an APA accredited school. Then you can go to all states and sit for their boards with little problems. The APA has the most stringent standards. Psy.D.'s don't get the respect they deserve. The Ph.D. degree is still the mother of all degrees. Psy.D's are ussually hired in academia for clinical supervision courses only. All the other subjects are typically given to Ph.D.'s. That's the hard reality right now unless the Psy.D.'s take over... which is a possibility over time. Keep in mind, I am only talking about doctorates that satisfy state licensure laws for Clinical Psychlogy (Lic. Psychologist, LP). Hope this helps. BlackBird Ph.D. Learner in Family Psychology, Capella U.
