Perhaps it would be best if people just butted out of others' lives and quit worrying about what those others do in the privacy of their bedrooms, doctors' offices, etc. No big pronouncements on either side, no attestations of faith or creed or philosophy. Just butt out and worry about our own stuff. Imagine how much more the government would get done, how much more happy we could all be in our lives if we just quit trying to get involved in the private affairs of others. But I guess some people (i.e. those protesters) have just too much perfection in their own lives, they have to move on to shaping others'. (Although this post appears first in the thread, it was a response to the information Jeff posted below. Thanks, Jeff. And I guess another "screw you" to Einstein--I've gone back in time!)
As you may have seen, the Reverand Fred Phelps is in the process of erecting a monument to Matthew Sheppard. He wants to commemorate the day Matthew was sent to Hell for being a fag. My question is: Why is homosexuality so much worse than any other sin? Are we not all sinners? By the way, I have a humorous story about these terrorists who call themselves "God Hates Fags." I used to live in DC, at 400 Pennsylavnia SE. In 1998, I went to the Clinton inaguration at the Capitol, a few blocks away. I wasn't interested in the parade, so I went home afterwards. About an hour later, I heard some chanting coming from outside. I looked out the window and saw that it was the "God Hates Fags" people, out in the median of Pennsylvania Avenue staging a protest. Apparently, they did not realize that the inagural parade would go down Pennsylvania Ave. NW, not Pennsylvania Ave. SE. They must have been wondering where the hell all of the people were (not to mention the President), but they kept up their demonstration for well over 2 hours, until long after the inagural parade had been completed. Anyway, given the nature of some posts I have seen here, I'm sure that some of you are all for this "memorial" to Matthew Sheppard. I'm just wondering why? But of course, no one will admit it. Even those who advocate discrimination against "fags." Don't make me pull up your quotes. There are plenty here who are against gay bishops, gay adoption, gay rights in any respect. Why is the sin of homosexuality worse than any of the sins mentioned in the 10 Commandments? And, of course, there is the point that Fred Phelps (and, ultimately, the people who killed Matthew Sheppard) could/would not be doing what they are doing without such widespread support from the majority of "Christians." I must have missed the part of the Bible where God said that homosexuality is the worst sin imaginable, it cannot be forgiven, and homosexuals should be tortured and murdered.
I do not understand homosexuality, or how a man could be attracted to another man. It just does not make sense to me. I do not think it is natural, and humans seem to be the only species that have this problem. However, I think what someone does in the privacy of their bedroom is their business. These "God Hates Fags" groups are just as wrong as the homosexual activist that want to shove it in everyone’s face from the Boy Scouts to the public schools. I have no problem with any homosexual person being a scout leader, or a schoolteacher as long as they leave his or her sexuality where it belongs. I would not want a scout leader, or teacher talking about his sexuality with my child whether he was straight or gay. Everyone would be much better off if the extremist on both sides of the issue would leave it in the bedroom where it belongs! Also, I have no problem with a memorial for Mathew Sheppard. He was a victim killed for the same reason that the terrorist killed all the people on 9/11, he was different.
I'm starting a new group: "God Hates Sellfish Eaters." Our first rally will be in New Orleans. Although we do not advocate the murder of shellfish eaters, we will commemorate it when it does happen. Glory to God!
I am not sure what you mean by this (as with most of your posts.) But you are a representative of the church, right? Do you think that there is a misrepresntation in the Bible passage above? If so, please explain God's errors. If not, how much do you think I shoud ask for selling my daughter into salvery? (And once again, this bizarre board decides to put my post out of order so that it makes no sense. This board is becoming a very nice exercise in Dadaism.)
Phelps is pushing for the death penalty for homosexuality. Website: http://www.godhatesfags.com/ I would love to see him caught in a Swaggart-type scenario.
You are aware that the Memorial that Phelps is putting up is not a nice thing right? Its designed to be evil and nasty.
This is a very hateful statement. The majority of Christians who oppose homosexuality DO NOT condone nor support hate or violence or discrimination toward ANY segment of the population. The majority of Christians DO NOT support Phelps or any other hate monger. As Christians, as disciples of Christ, as born again believers, we are admonished to love everyone. We do not have to agree with their behaviors and/or lifestyles but we are to love them. We love them with a phileo love and move towards loving them with agape love (or in Aramaic khoba --unconditional love). Your statement is as hateful as Phelps' statements.
http://www.petitiononline.com/mrphelps/petition.html But, the monument will be no memorial. Phelps says the monument would be 5 to 6 feet tall and made of marble or granite. It would bear a bronze plaque bearing the image of Shepard and have an inscription reading "MATTHEW SHEPARD, Entered Hell October 12, 1998, in Defiance of God's Warning: 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination.' Leviticus 18:22." According to another poster on the site this information came from, and I quote * I am posting all of this based on fair use. This discussion can be found on indygoth.com in the politic, religion and computer forum...
if everybody would stopped publicising him Phelps would pretty much be a nonentity. But because the press loves to fan the flames of controversy the minority nuts in Phelp's organization will have far more impact than their numbers or twisted ideas warrant. Not to say he should be ignored. The likes of them have to be watched so when they step out of line they can be squashed quickly.
Every time I hear someone referencing Leviticus 18:22, I am reminded of the open letter to Dr. Laura Schlesinger that was widely posted on the Internet several years ago. Just for fun, I’ll repost it here. Dear Dr. Laura, Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them. a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die? i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.
Gee whiz, Jeff, you'll have to ask God about God's errors. I wouldn't know. But since you asked, as ole Doc Martin would put it, here's an answer w/o horns and w/o teeth: Do I think same-sex sexual activity is wrong, based on the Bible? Yes. Do I think hating homosexuals is wrong, based on the Bible? Yes. Do I think Matthew Shepherd is in hell? If he died in faith in Christ, no. If not, that's God's business who alone knows hearts. Is Fred Phelps headed for hell? Yes. Why? 1) hatred 2) chillul ha-Shem (desecrating the Name of God by being a jerk in God's name) 3) heresy. Who is likelier to go to hell, a hatefilled preacher or a homosexual who honestly (emphasis there) believes same sex sex is OK? Hatefilled preacher. Why? Jesus says that the servant who doesn't know his Master's will gets a light punishment, but the servant who does--and then ignores it--gets the crap beaten out of him. ___________________ As for my posts, when you get to be as dumb as I am, they'll make more sense to you. I was just admiring the self-congratulation implicit in the thread, that's all. To anyone who was hoping for an anti-homosexual diatribe in order to say "see what awful people those Christians are--especially right-wing ones", my sincere apologies. Of course, in my theological book, Fred Phelps is a liberal who denies the truth of the Bible re: sacraments, forgiveness, and much else. This is what happens when you're stuck in the 16th century like me.
