The War in Iraq

From the thread at:http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=94588#post94588

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Originally posted by plcscott Most of these people are not like us.
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No, most of "these people" are not like YOU. Most Iraqis do not believe that just because a society is different, it should be destroyed.


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So, after watching them kill innocent people in Israel (including Americans) by blowing themselves up, and the 9/11 event I can tell you that I do not have much sympathy for many over there. Just my not so politically correct opinion.
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Who is "them." Any Arab? Any Muslim? Anyone with dark skin? Ahh, what's it matter? Just mow 'em all down.

 

I consider them to be terrorist. Most terrorists are radical Islamic fundamentalist. Most of the terrorist in this world come from the Muslim faith, and mostly come from the Middle East.

Now, I do think there are good people in the Islamic faith, and good people in that region. I did not make the statement mow them all down. If it comes down to a choice between our troops being killed, and having to mow down innocent people mixed in with the evil terrorist then I say mow them down if you have to. If you are in Iraq then try to stay away from those radical idiots, so that you do not get mowed down by mistake. I think they are smart enough to know that. I have no sympathy for the people who stand and cheer when they see a helicopter go down and kill people who are there to free them, and protect their country from evil dictatorship.

So, if you want to turn this into a racial issue then go ahead, but I am more loyal to freedom loving Americans, and our allies than the West hating Arabs. Are Christians running around blowing themselves up in order to kill innocent victims? How bout the Jews, Greeks, Hebrews, Latinos, Irish, Catholics, Protestants, and Buddhist? We let people from any race or religion come here and believe or say what they wish. Can people do the same there?

My statement about pussy-footing around had to do with the way things have been since the country was taken over. What do you think they should do?

 

Please explain to me exactly how your advocating mowing down innocent individuals differs from the the views of the terrorists who commited the 9/11 massacre.

 

Since we don't know the source that you base this claim upon we have no way to evaluate the reliability of that claim.

In this case would America not be the "terrorist" party? Who invaded who?

Do you believe that Arabs have no justifiable reason to hate the United States?

Are Christians under military occupation?

 

That question popped into my head as well. Plcscott would be wise to heed the following advice:

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

Try the news. It is not the rainbow coalition, or Christian conservatives that are training terrorist in camps. It is not Donald Trump, and Bill Gates that are funding the terrorist. It is Osama, Sadam and some of the rich Saudi's.

What justifiable reason do they have? Let's see if it was not for the US they may still be riding camels, and searching for water. Instead the US through innovation, and technology has made many of these countries very rich. The US has also given billions in aide to many of these countries.

I do not care if they hate us as long as they do not slam planes into buildings killing innocent Americans. That is where I draw the line. I do not care if you do not like me, or my family, but if you lay a hand on any of us then I am going to do everything in my power to hurt you, so you do not do it again. That is what the US is doing over there.

I guess this is in reference to the Palestinians. Where are the people of Israel supposed to live? In that small country they have already offered on several occasions to give up much of their land for peace, but the terrorist do not want peace. They want to drive Israel into the sea. Are the Israelis in the streets chanting death to the Palestinians?

 

What part of my post do you not understand Jeff?

If it comes down to a choice then my choice is Americans, and our allies. If you are one of the good guys then stay away from the bad, so you are not mistakenly killed. Don't be in streets cheering when one of these radical idiots starts shooting RPG's at a hotel. I have yet to advocate mowing down innocent individuals. The innocent should get the hell out of the way, or better yet point out the guilty.

What do you think we should have done after 9/11? Start apologizing for America’s ways, and hope they would never want to do something like this again?

My views are different because our troops are there freeing the innocent, and the 9/11 terrorist attacked the innocent.
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I'm not convinced that's accurate. Assuming that it is, does it imply that most Muslims are radical Islamic fundamentalists, or that most of the fundamentalists are terrorists?

I'm very much in favor of responding forcefully to those that threaten us.

But we need to exercise some discernment in order to avoid striking out blindly. To label all of Islam as the enemy and then to set out to... what?... only gives Osama bin Ladin precisely what he wants.

His whole intention on 9-11 was to precipitate a "war of civilizations". He feared the gradual spread of Western ideas and values in the Islamic world and the erosion of traditional Islamic culture. And he decided that the best way to halt the rot was to set Islam and the West irrevocably and violently against one another. That he attempted to do in the most spectacular way possible.

The Irish Republican Army. Basque militants. Any number of rebels and drug gangs in Colombia. Shining Path in Peru. I can't think of any Buddhist terrorists off hand, but I'm sure that if you poke around places like Burma and Thailand, you will find them. (They love to grow opium.)

Consider Africa. That continent is positively infested with insurgencies. (Chopping children's arms off is paradigmatic terrorism.) Most of this has little to do with Islam.

I think that to some extent the widespread popular equation of Islam = terrorism here in the United States is an artifact of the media's obsession with Israel. Every terrorist attack in Israel is covered in gruesome detail. Each one is headline news.

But when the Tamil Tigers (perhaps the world's most active terrorist organization) launch another attack in Sri Lanka, nobody cares in the slightest.

 

I am not convinced that it is not accurate. You worded this backwards. I did not say most Muslims are terrorist. I said most terrorist are radical Islamic fundamentalist.

You may be right about the media not covering others, but it is not the media that are committing the acts. So, I still blame the terrorist, and would love to see them all removed from this world. Maybe most of the terrorist are not Islamic, but that is what I see the most of in the news, so unless they start covering the others then that is the way I see it.

 

I agree with your point, but a correction is in order. What you are referencing is in fact part of Islamic law - government sactioned at that. Does all African mutilation stem from Islam? No. Does most? Historically, yes (except for female genital mutilation - more to do with culture than religion).

By the way, it may not be accurate to claim that most terrorists are Muslims, but it is accurate to say that most terrorist attacks against America are by radical Muslims.

 

Yes, actually, Christians are under military occupation by a foreign power. Maybe if the Maronites started blowing up pizza parlors in Damascus and killing Syrian children they could get a turn as the uncrowned kings of the politically correct.
Millions of (crocodile) tears for the so-called West Bank. Lebanon? Where the hell is that?

 

No matter what name one calls the brutalization of humanity, we all suffer. No matter who commits the terrorism or brutalization, we all suffer and no group of people or religion is exempt. Just look at the Bahais for instance. They continue to be persecuted, especially in Iran. The Assyrians are another persecuted group. Greed, lust, ethnocentricity, and meglomania seem to rule the day.

 

Why do these "fundamentalists" use religion as the basis for their hate and justification for their acts of violence? All religions teach peace and understanding - its just that some people need a rallying point and religion is easy to exploit - especially if "martyrdom" is a central theme within a religion. Go figure!

 

No they don't. Assembly of Christian Soldiers, Body of Christ, Christian Survival Fellowship, Church of the Chrsitian Crusade, and a number of African and Asian religions do not teach peace and understanding.

 

My first reaction after 911 was the same as yours plcscott. I can’t say that I blame you for your views. But the US has a history of protecting the innocent, even if this means not being able to win our wars as fast as we could. This is the difference between us and them.

 

Imagine that America had been attacked by 19 Latin Americans, and 15 of them were from Venezuela. How should we handle this situation?

We can't attack Venezuela. They are friendly to us, and they have an enormous amount of oil.

So, obviously, we should attack Cuba. The are long standing enemies. They speak the same language as the terrorists. They have the same religion as the terrorists. They have the same skin color.

Nevermind that not one of the terrorists was from Cuba. Nevermind that there is no legitimate evidence of Cuba participating in the attacks. It doesn't matter. Someone has to pay. Have you forgotten what "they" did to us?

All we have to do is claim that Cuba is a threat to the U.S., even though we know it is a lie. Then we can go in and overthrow their government, and justify it later by saying that their government was evil. It's a good end, and that justifies the means, right?

Sound familiar?

 

Well said, Carlos. I think the bottom line is can we, as a nation, sit idly by and watch brutality go on around us? This past weeked a grave in Iraq was unearthed. Approximately 300,000 bodies, mostly women and children, were buried there. Under Clinton small children in the former Yugoslavia were raped. Under Clinton butchery took place in Rwanda. Under Bush 41 the Kurds were slaughtered. Yes, I know we cannot police the world. Yes, I know the U.S. (CIA) has not always been up front about their activities. Yes, I know the CIA has assasinated foreign leaders. Yes, I know we have gone to war under false pretenses. But, humanity is humanity and out of simply civility we cannot just sit and watch the slaughter, can we? Remember the words of German pastor Martin Niemoller:

Not completely relevant because of his outspoken outspoken pacificism but I think you get the message anyway.

 

Iraq

Would the USA like another nation to declare that the USA has "weapons of mass destruction" and start bombing?

 

Re: Iraq

Ah, from VT. You must be a follower of Richard Gottlieb's Liberty Union Party. To answer your question, if America used the WMD's the way Saddam Hussein did, then we'd probably deserve whatever other nations do to us. Civility and humanity know no bounds, no racial groups, no ethnic groups and no religious groups. Simple human rights and dignity know no lines of demarcation.

 

Re: Iraq

Ah, from VT. You must be a follower of Richard Gottlieb's Liberty Union Party. To answer your question, if America used the WMD's the way Saddam Hussein did, then we'd probably deserve whatever other nations do to us. Civility and humanity know no bounds, no racial groups, no ethnic groups and no religious groups. Simple human rights and dignity know no lines of demarcation.