Column in Virginia Tech Collegiate Times: Online classes have limited benefits

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by oxpecker, Oct 8, 2003.

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  1. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2003
  2. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member


    I don't necessarily disagree with the premise. While the writer's maturity level is showing (and that's okay given his presumed age), is a complete bachelor's degree online appropriate for the 18-22 crowd? I'm not sure that I have a good answer to that question, but my guess is that academics is only one of a number of things that traditional age college students are supposed to learn.

    I think my answer is that it depends on the person. For most people in that age group I think that you can miss a lot by not getting the college experience. There's a lot of growing up that goes on, particularly if you go away to college. I think some folks get that same growing up experience by joining the military or on a church mission.



    Tom Nixon
     
  3. Professor Kennedy

    Professor Kennedy New Member

    Student: "College is also about learning maturity, transitioning into adulthood and making friends and connections."

    Presumably the writer is an undergraduate. I wonder how he thinks the people who do not go to college learn about maturity, transition to adulthood, and make friends and connections?

    But the main point is that DL is not an alternative to going to college for people just out of high school. I do not believe that DL would be of interest to this age group. It is for more mature adults than undergraduates. It is the alternative to not having gone to college, or having gone that route, to not doing the postgraduate programme of their choice when their life and job styles, location(s) and work commitments (but not their abilities) prevent them from taking time off to attend university.

    The alternative to a DL MBA is often No MBA. Hence, discussions about the alleged superiority of campus education to DL is usually meaningless, as are the views of undergraduates at college who write on the subject.
     
  4. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    Professor Kennedy has expressed my general view on this subject much better than I would (especially at this hour), so I won't try. Speaking from personal experience, I would add that those rare folks who don't particularly want the "off to college" experience are probably the folks who need it least. I'm a very odd guy in terms of naturally occurring social outlets--homeschooled, distance learning bachelor's, distance learning master's, distance learning doctoral program, nontraditional freelance career--but I've always been able (and usually been willing) to make the extra effort required in building social networks, so it works out pretty well for me.


    Cheers,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2003
  5. obecve

    obecve New Member

    The majority of people utilizing DL programs are not traditional undergrads. They are adults who are needing credentials for personal interest, career change or life change. The collegial experince is not what is neded. The have reached maturity and have the social life they want or need. The point for them is information and the qualifying degree. In their case, I am not sure the classroom experience necessarily enhances the experience.
     
  6. Mike Albrecht

    Mike Albrecht New Member

    I wil throw in my two cents in agreement with the above replies. I could not be working towards a PhD in engineering any other way but DL at this point in my life, but I would never recommend it for any one who has not gone to college already.

    DL leanring takes much more self diciplen, and inititive than regular campus programs do. If you do not already have the maturity to self direct youself you will fail.

    One of the classes I am taking right now is a good example (ME512 Reliability), it has about equal number of on campus and off campus students. All are taking the same course, the same way, by DL. Most of the on campus students have just graduated with their undergraduate degree and this is the first semester of graduate work they are taking.

    Of the 15 students in the course, only 5 are on schedule and all of them are "mature" students. One of the 5 is on campus, but he is in the PhD program and has been out of school for over 5 years (since his masters). To my knoweldge, none of the other 6 oncampus students are as close as two weeks behind in assingments.
     
  7. Mike Albrecht

    Mike Albrecht New Member

    I wil throw in my two cents in agreement with the above replies. I could not be working towards a PhD in engineering any other way but DL at this point in my life, but I would never recommend it for any one who has not gone to college already.

    DL leanring takes much more self diciplen, and inititive than regular campus programs do. If you do not already have the maturity to self direct youself you will fail.

    One of the classes I am taking right now is a good example (ME512 Reliability), it has about equal number of on campus and off campus students. All are taking the same course, the same way, by DL. Most of the on campus students have just graduated with their undergraduate degree and this is the first semester of graduate work they are taking.

    Of the 15 students in the course, only 5 are on schedule and all of them are "mature" students. One of the 5 is on campus, but he is in the PhD program and has been out of school for over 5 years (since his masters). To my knoweldge, none of the other 6 oncampus students are as close as two weeks behind in assingments.
     
  8. DisasterDave

    DisasterDave New Member

    Limited Benefits

    "College is also about learning maturity, transitioning into adulthood and making friends and connections." In certain instances this social process has resulted in binge drinking and anti-war demonstrations. Granted the attainment of these activities would be limited online.

    In all seriousness I feel that young undergradute students should complete a first degree in a traditional setting. Perhaps the author should craft a methodology and conduct research to validate his discourse of concern. A possible dissertation topic??

    In regards to several dissertations produced at VA Tech by traditional masters degree students, I noticed that the length of the methodology chapters were limited to about 5 pages. The dissertation that I produced in a traditional or online setting was over 20 pages. The Tech students only had to state the selected methodology. I had to justify as well as ground the methodolgy in theory. I think that traditional education also has its limits in certain instances.
     
  9. drwetsch

    drwetsch New Member

    In my opinion the bottom line is that DL courses take more discipline than traditional classes. In most cases the professor is more of a facilitator. I would not recommend a DL program for the typical 18-22 undergraduate but for adult learners who are working and supporting themselves or their family DL is great. Still, the DL model is not a fit for everybody even if there are a lot of DL methods to choose from such as online, correspondence, (independent study) video, etc.

    John
     
  10. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I agree with what everyone has already said.

    Another thing to consider is the nature of the material being studied. I think that DL is more appropriate for some majors than for others.

    Some of the humanities and social sciences seem tailor made for DL. If you imagine a philosophy class, what's happening? A guy is standing up in front of the class talking, or else the class has pulled their chairs into a circle and everyone is discussing some issue in the philosophy of language or something. I don't know why that kind of interaction can't be mediated by telecommunications with students and instructor in different physical locations.

    But imagine a microbiology lab, a theater stage or a ceramics studio. There are many fields where students need access to specialized equipment and to close supervision while they practice their technique. They need physical access to each other in order to interact and to learn from one another.

    So I'd argue that the amount of benefit that online classes have depends crucially on what those classes are attempting to replace.
     
  11. Lawrie Miller

    Lawrie Miller New Member

    I bought into the notion that distance education at bachelor level best suited mature learners. I tailored BA in 4 Weeks to meet the needs of that cohort. Yet, it seems a significant number of those using that series are high school or college-aged learners looking to augment or replace traditional credit gathering practices. Some of these kids will complete whole degrees, following the example programs included in the text.

    A case in point, Peter Glaeser, who earned a his undergraduate degree by examination from Excelsior, received offers of a place on graduate programs from nine of the top twenty universities in the U.K. Peter chose Warwick University, and graduated top of his class with a master's degree in Political Economy. During three years corresponding with him, it seemed to me he instinctively recognized the virtue of economy of effort. That is, he saw no benefit in doing things the hard way if an easier way was available.

    Peter looked at the time and effort that need be invested securing a degree in his native Germany and in essence thought: sod that for a game of soldiers. He looked around for an alternative and found U.S. assessment colleges and credit by examination. The rest is history (as detailed above)*. So far as I could tell, Peter led a very full and satisfying social life. He managed to negotiate the rites of passage to adulthood without a four year hiatus at mom and dad’s (or the taxpayer’s) expense. While Peter is certainly a very bright lad, he is not unique in his abilities. Many others are savvy enough to benefit from the same opportunities.

    The opportunities and economies inherent in distributed learning modalities are self evident. Inefficient and outrageously expensive four year colleges are anachronisms. It seems to me that young men and women will find each other, sow oats, and mature despite the loss of that traditional boondoggle. Young people seeking a college education have as much right and as much need of distance learning as do you or I.

    Well, they will have as much need, once they get off their lazy assets and get a job. J-O-B is not a four letter word, or is it just my kids that think that it is?


    More of Peter Glaeser’s story here:
    http://www.bain4weeks.com/peterglaeser.html

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