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  1. #1
    ikibah is offline Registered User
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    which doctorate for me?

    Hi again! I have posted here quite a few times about these different programs but it's been long enough...I need to pull the trigger and enroll in one already. Here's what I have so far and where I stand...any feedback on these programs or any programs I may be missing would be greatly appreciated.

    Basically I am licensed as a social worker. I want a doctorate for the sake of A. marketability, B. the ability to teach (I know you can teach with a Master's in quite a few community colleges but I have a couple of schools that I'm interested in that require a doctorate; I'm not talking tenure track). C. marketability in regards to the book I am writing.

    I was sold on ULM'S online PhD in MFT and started applying....until they told me I needed the GRE's! When I first started looking into the program about a year ago they said they weren't necessary..now they say I need them.

    Next on the list is either calsouthern; of which I'm skeptical because I can't get licensed in my state with their degree and I feel like it's deceitful to say I have a psyd in clinical psych but not be a psychologist ; just my feeling.

    Next is Touro University Worldwide's psyd in Human and industrial psych. I feel better about this because it's not a psyd in clinical psych, It's in its own unique field where licensure is irrelivent. I'm holding out on this because it's very statiscis/research based which is my weak-point (one of the reasons I pursued an MSW and not a PsyD.

    Next is grand canyons phd in general psych w. an emphasis in performance psych. My only knock on this program is its rep. Although I know it has a campus, DI team etc. it still has the "online school" feel to it and being that the purpose of my degree is very much marketability I feel like a GCU degree wouldn't have the same feel as ULM or Touro degree.

    That's where I'm at; any advice whatsover would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks for sticking through all of that!

  2. #2
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    The GRE is an annoyance, I'll admit, but considering how minuscule the time, effort, and expense to take it is relative to those of completing a doctorate, I don't understand why it's a deal breaker.
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  3. #3
    Neuhaus is online now Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikibah View Post
    Hi again! I have posted here quite a few times about these different programs but it's been long enough...I need to pull the trigger and enroll in one already. Here's what I have so far and where I stand...any feedback on these programs or any programs I may be missing would be greatly appreciated.

    Basically I am licensed as a social worker. I want a doctorate for the sake of A. marketability, B. the ability to teach (I know you can teach with a Master's in quite a few community colleges but I have a couple of schools that I'm interested in that require a doctorate; I'm not talking tenure track). C. marketability in regards to the book I am writing.
    I'm not saying that this never happens, but I'm curious if you ever picked up a book at the store, saw it was written by someone with a Masters degree (and not a doctorate) and put it back? Alternatively, have you ever specifically zeroed in on a book because the author has a doctorate?

    I say this because if you had said "I really want a doctorate because I want to engage in scholarly research and advance the field of psychology " then I would totally see this next step. But it seems to me that the reason you want the doctorate is so that you can potentially sell a few extra books with some snazzier post-nominal letters. Hey, I get it, Dr. Phil is more popular than Mr. Phil, M.A. (or M.S.W. as the case here).

    I was sold on ULM'S online PhD in MFT and started applying....until they told me I needed the GRE's! When I first started looking into the program about a year ago they said they weren't necessary..now they say I need them.
    This kind of highlights my earlier musing. As Steve notes, the GRE is a pain but pretty minor compared to, you know, earning a doctorate. If a GRE "curve ball" sent you into a tailspin are you sure you are ready to take on conducting doctoral level research?

    Next on the list is either calsouthern; of which I'm skeptical because I can't get licensed in my state with their degree and I feel like it's deceitful to say I have a psyd in clinical psych but not be a psychologist; just my feeling.
    We've discussed situations like that at length. In this situation I would tend to agree with your assessment.

    Next is grand canyons phd in general psych w. an emphasis in performance psych. My only knock on this program is its rep. Although I know it has a campus, DI team etc. it still has the "online school" feel to it and being that the purpose of my degree is very much marketability I feel like a GCU degree wouldn't have the same feel as ULM or Touro degree.
    When I submit an info form to Northern Arizona University I averaged about 3-7 calls per day from an admissions rep.

    SNHU made me seriously regret having given them my work phone number. It was non-stop.

    Point is, schools aren't stupid. They see what of the "University of Phoenix " model works and they replicate it as closely as possible without getting slapped by an accreditor. A lot of schools have the unfortunate "feel" you speak of even if they are non-profit and, in the case of NAU, public. Generally speaking I avoid this by vetting a program fully. When I call it is specifically to enroll. I want minimal contact with the admissions folks. It's like when I buy a car. I don't want the salesman to tell me about it. I don't care what his thoughts are on how it will enrich my life. I do my car research. When I arrive, I know what I want. I know how much I am going to spend. And I show up with my own financing.

    I have no experience with GCU but I generally only hear good things about them. If they have a program you like and it works for you financially then don't let an assertive marketing strategy put you off.

    But you're also talking about a pretty sizable expense of time and money for a marginal return. And if taking the GRE is too much of a hassle for you then you might be really disappointed when it comes time to write a dissertation.
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  4. #4
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Just about any degree from any school will accomplish your first and third objectives. A relevant degree from any regionally accredited school should take care of the second one. The impact of those things are on a sliding scale of quality--real and perceived--in your choice of degree and school.

    But your reasons for getting a doctorate, while certainly interesting and important to you, are really not sufficient to justify getting one. You're missing a key point: what impact you and your research will have on your field of study. And another one: what will you become after you do it? (No, not 'more of the same,' which is what you're describing.) Failing to address, embrace, and fulfill these two points is a certain way to undermine all your reasons for doing it.

    Good luck in your search and choices.

  5. #5
    ikibah is offline Registered User
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    my issue with the gre is not that it's an annoyance it's that I would probably not get a single math question right...I am terrible...TERRIBLE at math. It would knock me out of any consideration...as per the importance of having the doctorate; I have done extensive research on the matter and it has the potential to really make a difference in the mental health field.

  6. #6
    back2thebooks is offline Registered User
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    Some schools are scary

    I contacted California Intercontinental University some time ago to inquire about their DBA program. They still call my phone everyday, sometimes 2 times per day. They even call on weekends!

    What is one supposed to think when schools do things like this?

  7. #7
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Well, you could ask whether they'll accept a Miller Analogies Test score instead. No math, and it's cheaper and faster to take. But even at that, you may only be delaying the inevitable since you'll need to study and use statistics to get through a research doctorate.
    BS, Info Sys concentration, Charter Oak State College
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  9. #8
    ikibah is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFoerster View Post
    Well, you could ask whether they'll accept a Miller Analogies Test score instead. No math, and it's cheaper and faster to take. But even at that, you may only be delaying the inevitable since you'll need to study and use statistics to get through a research doctorate.
    I already asked them that! They said nope. AND get this...this is the first year they're requiring the GRE! In regards to avoiding the inevitable, ULM, GCU and Calsouthern do all have research components however none seem to be too stat heavy (i.e there research methods and qualitative research with maybe one quantitative research class, and the dissertations could be qualitative) touro's program is a little more research/stat heavy wich does indeed make me hesitant about it.

  10. #9
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikibah View Post
    I already asked them that! They said nope. AND get this...this is the first year they're requiring the GRE! In regards to avoiding the inevitable, ULM, GCU and Calsouthern do all have research components however none seem to be too stat heavy (i.e there research methods and qualitative research with maybe one quantitative research class, and the dissertations could be qualitative) touro's program is a little more research/stat heavy wich does indeed make me hesitant about it.
    You MUST be capable in BOTH qualitative and quantitative methods before undertaking your dissertation proposal. Why? Because the method(s) you choose will be driven by the research questions you undertake. Otherwise, you're letting the method dictate the research, which is utterly backwards.

    People who claim they "can't" do math are really saying they "won't" do it. Besides, statistical methods require very little in the way of math skills; they're much more about understanding the questions you're trying to answer and how the methods get at those questions.

    Please know that doing a qualitative dissertation is WAY harder than a quantitative one. You have soooo much more writing to do in order to get at your research questions and answer them completely. Plus, qualitative methods do not rely on inferences about the population; the key to quantitative sampling. It's much harder to establish the significance of what you found qualitatively.

    I've done one of each. My first dissertation was qualitative. Bring out the research questions, write some hypotheses, design a survey and statistical methods to test them, and write up the results. Easy. But my second doctoral thesis was qualitative. My first draft was really, really good, but my committee said that there was so much more going on in the data. While they passed me, they asked me to go back into it and mine for more. What resulted--after almost another year of work--was an entirely new chapter describing the underlying phenomenon like I'd never dreamed it was there! It was immensely more difficult to do than my quantitative dissertation!

    Take the GRE. Or go to a school that doesn't require it. But either way, be prepared to get prepared for statistical analyses. You must if you're to take on the development of a dissertation proposal and, ultimately, a dissertation.

    Good luck.

  11. #10
    TonyM is offline Registered User
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    In case you haven't run across it already, Walden U has a Doctor of Social Work in Family Studies and Interventions along with a lot of other concentrations.

    Doctor of Social Work | Online Social Work Degree Programs | Doctorate in Social Work | Walden University
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  12. #11
    Neuhaus is online now Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyM View Post
    In case you haven't run across it already, Walden U has a Doctor of Social Work in Family Studies and Interventions along with a lot of other concentrations.

    Doctor of Social Work | Online Social Work Degree Programs | Doctorate in Social Work | Walden University
    Not a bad option for the OP who is a clinical social worker already.

    Downside, the post-nominals aren't as sexy as "PhD" and to the untrained eye may just make them say:

    "Man, that guy/gal really likes Designer Shoe Warehouse."
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  13. #12
    ikibah is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuhaus View Post
    Not a bad option for the OP who is a clinical social worker already.

    Downside, the post-nominals aren't as sexy as "PhD" and to the untrained eye may just make them say:

    "Man, that guy/gal really likes Designer Shoe Warehouse."
    haha yeah - a quick google search for dsw programs brought me to quite a few mentions of the shoe store!

    I think walden has a little bit too much of the UoP feel...also it's a bit more expensive the othr programs.

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    japhy4529 is offline House Bassist
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  15. #14
    Neuhaus is online now Registered User
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    I've been to Kutztown. An ex-girlfriend of mine studied Social Work as an undergrad there. It's a nice campus (and you'd have some weekend work to do there). It's kind of in the middle of nowhere but it has a decent reputation within PA.

    Outside of the region it sounds kind of like a brewery and people look at you a bit funny when you bring it up, seemingly analyzing to see if they are missing a joke.

    Also, students of Kings and Wilkes University typically refer to it as "Klutz-town" which is doubly insulting because the "kutz" in the actual university name is typically accented slightly in contrast to the soft "u" in "klutz."

    Still, it's a good school with a solid regional reputation. While you may live in an area where nobody heard of the place it isn't a school you would be ashamed to have on your resume.

    It's pretty solidly in the middle of nowhere between Reading and Allentown (two of the most depressing cities I've visited). Allentown has a decent regional airport so getting there might not be a colossal pain unless you live on the other coast.
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  17. #15
    ikibah is offline Registered User
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    double post sorry
    Last edited by ikibah; 10-27-2015 at 03:38 PM.

  18. #16
    ikibah is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuhaus View Post
    I've been to Kutztown. An ex-girlfriend of mine studied Social Work as an undergrad there. It's a nice campus (and you'd have some weekend work to do there). It's kind of in the middle of nowhere but it has a decent reputation within PA.

    Outside of the region it sounds kind of like a brewery and people look at you a bit funny when you bring it up, seemingly analyzing to see if they are missing a joke.

    Also, students of Kings and Wilkes University typically refer to it as "Klutz-town" which is doubly insulting because the "kutz" in the actual university name is typically accented slightly in contrast to the soft "u" in "klutz."

    Still, it's a good school with a solid regional reputation. While you may live in an area where nobody heard of the place it isn't a school you would be ashamed to have on your resume.

    It's pretty solidly in the middle of nowhere between Reading and Allentown (two of the most depressing cities I've visited). Allentown has a decent regional airport so getting there might not be a colossal pain unless you live on the other coast.
    wow kutztown is a diamond in the rough..super cheap and it seems like a legit university...it's also less then 3 hours away from me...GREAT FIND..thanks!

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