+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 36
  1. #1
    ikibah is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    55

    calsouthern psyd

    I've read ALL the old threads on this but I'd like to get some more recent feedback on california southern university's online psyd program. I'm not looking to get licensed as I already will be an lcpc who can practice. I'm looking for a doctorate for the sake of marketability in my private practice. Any feedback?

  2. #2
    Garp is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    546
    As you know there are limits to use outside of CA in terms of licensure as a Psychologist . Looks like a substantial program from a school that has been around and offering the degree for a while.

    In terms of your practice it would likely help based on increasing knowledge. The problem is that as a PsyD and licensed psychotherapist you will give people the impression that you are a Clinical Psychologist .

  3. #3
    ikibah is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    55
    I've wondered about this as I see it all the time. Is it considered unethical for a licensed psychotherapist to get a psyd for the sake of being called a Dr. and marketing themselves? What if one's website, business cards etc. says

    John Doe PsyD, LCPC, licensed psychotherapist and clinical social worker.

    Is this unethical? as you are explicitly stating that you are not a psychologist .

  4. #4
    Michelle is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    144
    Will their PsyD have more utility if / when they receive WASC accreditation? I don't know what the requirements are for general psychology since I've only been researching the requirements for school psychology .
    AAS, Visual Communication, NMTC - 2006
    BS, Communication, COSC - 2012
    MS, Brain-Based Teaching, Nova Southeastern - 2014
    EDS, Information Science and Learning Technology, University of Missouri - in progress

  5. #5
    Garp is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    546
    If they get WASC.....the answer is yes. In general, from what I recall, most states do not require the APA accreditation so the Regional accreditation alone would open the door to licensure. I would advise you check with your state.

    After having said that, I should add that not having an APA accredited doctorate in psychology and an APA approved internship will limit your post degree opportunities. Some jobs want the APA accredited degree and internship. But there are still many opportunities available where you will only need the accredited degree and licensure. Their degree if it becomes WASC will be a great bargain.

  6. #6
    Michelle is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    144
    That's great to know. I know from experience that enrolling in a school just before it gains regional accreditation can work out really well because you can enjoy smaller classes while ending up with a regionally accredited degree. With my associates degree, the school was only accredited as a state technical college but was in the process of getting SACS approval when I enrolled. I timed it so that my last semester was the first one under SACS accreditation. I feel like a got a bargain on a great education because for the majority of my time at the college, the classes had about 6 - 20 students but doubled to tripled that last semester after the SACS accreditation was approved. Since everything was being scrutinized by SACS, the college made certain that the quality was excellent. Plus, the professors in my department put an amazing amount of time into getting to know us personally and mentoring us since the classes were so small. If the PsyD program at California Southern is similar right now, I would be very tempted if I could afford to pay out of pocket instead of relying on financial aid.
    AAS, Visual Communication, NMTC - 2006
    BS, Communication, COSC - 2012
    MS, Brain-Based Teaching, Nova Southeastern - 2014
    EDS, Information Science and Learning Technology, University of Missouri - in progress

  7. #7
    Jonathan Whatley is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    1,300
    Quote Originally Posted by Garp View Post
    If they get WASC.....the answer is yes. In general, from what I recall, most states do not require the APA accreditation so the Regional accreditation alone would open the door to licensure. I would advise you check with your state.

    After having said that, I should add that not having an APA accredited doctorate in psychology and an APA approved internship will limit your post degree opportunities. Some jobs want the APA accredited degree and internship. But there are still many opportunities available where you will only need the accredited degree and licensure. Their degree if it becomes WASC will be a great bargain.
    There's a further big catch: States that don't absolutely require APA may have requirements unique to graduates from non-APA programs, and these can be challenging – such as demonstrating to the licensing board's satisfaction, inherently somewhat subjective, that their non-APA program was "equivalent" to an APA program.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah Smith Bailey, writing in 2004 in the APA's gradPSYCH magazine
    In fact, many states require licensure candidates to either have a degree from an APA-accredited doctoral program or prove that their program is equivalent—a growing trend among state licensing laws, says Packard. Some state laws also require an APA-accredited internship or the equivalent.
    Why accreditation matters: Accreditation guidelines set the standard for your education—and can ease your way to licensure (Deborah Smith Bailey, gradPSYCH, April 2004)

  8. Advertisement

  9. #8
    Garp is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    546
    Valid points. When you are in competition for a position with someone who has an accredited APA and APA approved internship they will likely have the advantage. Some jobs will posted and stipulate the APA requirement and simply exclude you from the beginning.

    I think (as with the CA distance learning law option) you have to be realistic about your options after you graduate. The advantage of CalSouthern (if it gets WASC) is affordability over other non APA programs like Capella , Walden and so on. I would guess that if they get WASC the tuition will start to increase. Weigh your return on investment. What will the degree cost you in terms of time and money and what will the outcomes be (think worse case scenario as far as job prospects). If those are okay then go for it. If you think in terms of worst case options and you end up with wonderful options that is icing on the cake so to speak.

    I have seen stories of people in various fields who made decisions to go into massive debt, mid career career change and so on only to be in debt and disappointed with the outcome. It pays (literally) to think things carefully through and decide what risk you are willing to take and what you and your family are willing to put into it. In this case the financial costs are relatively low (unless you are in massive debt already) and you can maintain your current job. Eventually you will have to do a practicum and then after graduating secure a position to do the required few thousand internship hours (that is easier done full time than fours hours per week over years) in order to become licensed (and pass Psy Liciensng exam). This can either mean doing the internship for free or at a low rate of pay while someone supervises those hours.
    Last edited by Garp; 05-24-2014 at 11:05 AM.

  10. #9
    onlineEdadvocate is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle View Post
    Will their PsyD have more utility if / when they receive WASC accreditation? I don't know what the requirements are for general psychology since I've only been researching the requirements for school psychology.
    They now have WASC accreditation which will enable graduates in many more states to sit for licensure as therapists and psychologists .

  11. #10
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    11,356
    Quote Originally Posted by onlineEdadvocate View Post
    They now have WASC accreditation which will enable graduates in many more states to sit for licensure as therapists and psychologists.
    The line between informing and shilling is in the eye of the beholder.

    Behold!

  12. #11
    Graves is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by onlineEdadvocate View Post
    They now have WASC accreditation which will enable graduates in many more states to sit for licensure as therapists and psychologists.
    So now they have the cheapest regionally accredited first professional degree in psychology . Wow. I'd probably attend if it were general, and I could clinically respecialize later.
    A.A. Liberal Arts - Pensacola State College - 2008
    B.S. Liberal Arts - Excelsior College - 2012
    M.A. General Psychology - American Military University - 2014

  13. #12
    Neuhaus is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Syracuse, NY
    Posts
    2,709
    Quote Originally Posted by ikibah View Post
    I've wondered about this as I see it all the time. Is it considered unethical for a licensed psychotherapist to get a psyd for the sake of being called a Dr. and marketing themselves? What if one's website, business cards etc. says

    John Doe PsyD, LCPC, licensed psychotherapist and clinical social worker.

    Is this unethical? as you are explicitly stating that you are not a psychologist.
    I know this is an older post I'm responding to but I feel it warrants addressing.

    No, it isn't unethical, generally speaking as long as it is a related degree.

    If I have a PhD in English Literature than billing myself as "Joseph Neuhaus, PhD, Licensed Mental Health Counselor" might very well wrongfully imply that I have a PhD that is relevant to my practice.

    I used to work with a lovely woman who was a licensed social worker and had a Ph.D. in Human Development . She only operated within the restrictions of her license.

    PsyD isn't a license. It's an academic degree. You can have a PsyD and, with no license whatsoever, use the post nominals PsyD.

    The standard credential to be an LPC/LMHC/etc is a Masters degree. You can certainly earn a PhD in Counseling (Counselling, if you're Canadian) and use that PhD, so why wouldn't you be able to use the PsyD? Neither are required to obtain your license and neither are inaccurate if you, in fact, earned one (or both) of those degrees. In fact, as I type this, I'm looking at a medical arts building where one of the tenants is listed as "Name, Psy.D., LMFT" with the latter being the abbreviation for Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist.

    I think where the sketchy stuff starts to come in is with licensed psychotherapists (at least in New York). In New York, you need a Masters (in any field) and to complete a 2 year psychotherapy program (non-degree). So, I see lots of people who market themselves as:

    John Doe, MA, Licensed Psychotherapist

    Of course, when you get into the guy's background, you find out that his M.A. is in Sociology . Still, not illegal. It may straddle the line between ethical and unethical but I've yet to see the state discipline someone because of it.

    My wife's associate director at work, however, lists her post-nominals as "Ph.D., LCSW." Her Ph.D. is in Public Administration and she's licensed as a Clinical Social Worker. Before she earned her Ph.D. she went with "MSW , LCSW" which is a tad redundant since you need an MSW to be an LCSW. Anyway, both are earned qualifications so I can't imagine anyone raising a serious issue with that.

    I suspect your question is largely based upon some misconceptions surrounding mental health practitioners. Even with a doctorate, I've yet to meet a practitioner who, in the course of therapy, actually refers to him/herself as "Dr. So-and-so."

    If you engage a psychologist , clinical social worker, mental health counselor, marriage and family therapist or anyone, for that matter, you almost never refer to the person as "Doctor." You're typically on a first name basis. It's part of that whole feeling comfortable and building rapport shtick. You don't walk around in a labcoat having people say "Good morning, Doctor" nor do you typically make your dinner reservations under "Dr. Smith" for preferred seating. So, you may be thinking that having a doctorate offers some sort of marketing advantage that it really and truly does not. The idea that someone would earn a doctorate solely for the purpose of enhanced marketing is, I would say, highly unrealistic. I think the people who are so vain as to even be tempted by the idea are the ones who end up buying diploma mill degrees and getting themselves into trouble that way.
    M.B.A. University of Scranton (Anticipated 2019)
    M.S.M. (Project Management) University of Management and Technology
    B.S.O.L. Thomas Edison State University
    B.S.B.A. Colorado Technical University
    A.A. University of Scranton
    Certificate in Human Resources Management - Cornell University School of Industrial and Labor Relations
    Certified Employee Benefit Specialist (CEBS)
    Senior Professional in Human Resources (SPHR)

  14. #13
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    11,356
    If the use of the degree creates confusion, it is unethical.

    Mental health providers are licensed at levels directly related to the level of their education . A master's-level counselor who is not licensed as a psychologist , but uses a psychology doctorate in his/her literature and other places connected to their patients' care, is being unethical. It is leaving a wrong impression with the patient--someone who should not be expected to make the distinctions such a situation require. Also, because there is multi-tiered licensing, and there is licensing directly related to the psychology doctorate, using the degree without also having the commensurate license is wrong. I don't care how 'related' you think the degree is. The licensing process is very clear. Yo want to sign your books with that degree? Fine. You want to list it at the end of some article you wrote? Fine. But please don't tell using the degree in a clinical environment is okay, because it isn't.

  15. #14
    Garp is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    546
    The professional, ethical and legal guidance I have seen (may vary between states) is that you can use your doctorate professionally and call yourself "Dr."....if....the doctorate is in a counseling related field. So, an LPC, Clinical Social Worker with an EdD , PhD or DMin in counseling , pastoral counseling or related field would be ok. A PhD in History or a DMin in Homiletics or Expository Preaching would not.

    As Rich points out, the problem with the PsyD is that it is a professional clinical psych degree and implies you are a clinical psychologist . People will assume you are one.
    Last edited by Garp; 07-28-2015 at 03:09 PM.

  16. Advertisement

  17. #15
    Neuhaus is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Syracuse, NY
    Posts
    2,709
    Horse hockey. PsyD is not an MD. The usage is not tied to a license.

    Riddle me this, would you consider it unethical for an NYS licensed psychoanalyst, who possesses an MSW , to list the post-nominal "MSW ?" After all, one might think that the person is a clinical social worker (Though a licensed MSW would likely use the post nominals LCSW or LMSW depending upon his/her license).

    Listing your earned PsyD doesn't create confusion particularly if you in no way indicate that you are a psychologist .

    John Smith, PsyD, LMHC
    Licensed Mental Health Counselor

    That's pretty straight forward. There is no confusion. When I see that I say "hey, that's an LMHC who also has a doctorate" and probably "I wonder why that PsyD isn't licensed as a psychologist ."

    So, Rich, we're going to have to respectfully disagree on the subject. Because, in New York at least, there is not a single professional association or regulatory body that shares your position (at least none that have been publicly stated). I can tell you that the guidance my wife received from the NYS Department of Ed was that earned degrees in related (the state of New York lists psychology , education , social work , human development and counseling as "related" degree fields, so this isn't a personal opinion of mine) fields can be included in all marketing provided the licensee does not 1) use the degree to misleadingly market themselves and 2) does not use a protected title to which they are not entitled to.

    So, NYS feels that a psychology degree is related enough for a counselor to use display it. To reconcile the state and your opinion, I suppose we could say that a PhD in Psychology is OK but the PsyD is off limits but that sounds like an arbitrary line in the sand just begging for a successful legal challenge.

    So I appreciate that you feel that the PsyD falls under condition one here, but I am respectfully going to decline your invitation about what anecdotal information I will, and will not, dispense.

    Let's also keep it in perspective. firstly, there are very few, if any, licensed mental health counselors who are earning a PsyD, PhD or EdD for the sole purpose of increased marketing .

    Second. There is virtually no advantage to trying to mislead people into thinking you are a licensed psychologist when you are an LMHC. If you work for an employer, they will know the difference. If you are in private practice your fees are more likely to be governed by whichever insurance panels you participate in. And most marketing comes from referrals anyway.

    LMHC, LMFT and Psychoanalyst are not lower tiers of the psychology license. They are completely separate licenses with completely separate education and experience requirements. One does not lead to another. And the educations are, arguably, mutually exclusive in certain cases. So, yeah, it can get confusing even without weird degree variations. But there is a lot more to how you market yourself than your post nominals.
    M.B.A. University of Scranton (Anticipated 2019)
    M.S.M. (Project Management) University of Management and Technology
    B.S.O.L. Thomas Edison State University
    B.S.B.A. Colorado Technical University
    A.A. University of Scranton
    Certificate in Human Resources Management - Cornell University School of Industrial and Labor Relations
    Certified Employee Benefit Specialist (CEBS)
    Senior Professional in Human Resources (SPHR)

  18. #16
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    11,356
    Quote Originally Posted by Neuhaus View Post
    Horse hockey. PsyD is not an MD. The usage is not tied to a license.
    That is wrong on its face. Anyone around here should realize that the term 'doctor' has two distinct connotations, one academic and one professional. Using the term 'doctor' in the clinical environment when one does not have the professional license commensurate with that title is misleading, regardless of whether or not the degree is earned. The PsyD is a professional doctorate (as opposed to a 'first professional doctorate'; they're different), not an academic one. It is specifically designed to prepare someone to practice in a profession--psychology . A licensed counselor is not a psychologist . Using the title 'doctor' or listing the PsyD as a post-nominal encourages confusion instead of clarifying things.

    Nurses who hold the PhD in nursing do not use the title in the clinical environment in order to avoid its confusion with the professional use of the term 'doctor.' They do, however, use it in educational settings where the use of the term 'doctor' is an academic one.

    Riddle me this, would you consider it unethical for an NYS licensed psychoanalyst, who possesses an MSW, to list the post-nominal "MSW?" After all, one might think that the person is a clinical social worker (Though a licensed MSW would likely use the post nominals LCSW or LMSW depending upon his/her license).
    If it creates confusion between the academic degree held and the professional title, then yes. But it seems like this wouldn't be the case if the person was licensed at the doctoral level, since that licensure would trump the other. But we're not talking about that hypothetical.

    Listing your earned PsyD doesn't create confusion particularly if you in no way indicate that you are a psychologist .

    John Smith, PsyD, LMHC
    Licensed Mental Health Counselor

    That's pretty straight forward. There is no confusion. When I see that I say "hey, that's an LMHC who also has a doctorate" and probably "I wonder why that PsyD isn't licensed as a psychologist."
    You're putting too fine a point on this and are asking the average joe out there to make those distinctions. The use of the degree in that situation implies relevant academic training beyond what is called for in the license. I submit to you that it is confusing because the person does not have license to practice at that level, so the distinction made by listing the degree is as irrelevant as listing your Boy Scout merit badges, except worse because the merit badges don't imply a higher level of licensure. Using the PsyD does.

    So, Rich, we're going to have to respectfully disagree on the subject. <snipped>
    Yes, please. I'm happy to leave it right there.

Similar Threads

  1. CalSouthern Accreditation Question
    By Pugbelly2 in forum General Distance Learning Discussions
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 07-20-2015, 11:12 AM
  2. PsyD, MSW, MA
    By Leigh6 in forum Nursing and medical-related degrees
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 06-24-2009, 07:52 AM
  3. PsyD, MSW, MA
    By Leigh6 in forum General Distance Learning Discussions
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 06-24-2009, 07:52 AM
  4. CalSouthern.edu (f.k.a. SCUPS) Now a "Top University"
    By Dave Wagner in forum Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approval, and unaccredited schools)
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-24-2007, 05:18 AM
  5. CalSouthern / SCUPS Beefed Up Psy.D.
    By Dave Wagner in forum Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approval, and unaccredited schools)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-13-2007, 08:24 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts




1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197