couseling requirements

Discussion in 'Nursing and medical-related degrees' started by Robert, Apr 14, 2002.

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  1. Robert

    Robert New Member

    I was just wondering, if a person wanted to get in the counseling field type of schooling would be required.
    Could a person in the field of Ministry go into counseling with a DMIN in counseling?
    I am in a DMIN program and am thinking of focusing on counseling. I am currious what other things i would need to practice as such.
     
  2. Howard

    Howard New Member

    Robert,
    The DMin does not provide the necessary credentials for counseling in most states. You can always do Christian Counseling under the umbrella of a church or other non-profit organization, but to sit for licensure in most states you will need the equivalent of a 48 semester hour masters in either counseling or counseling psychology. Good Luck.
     
  3. simon

    simon New Member


    Robert,

    Can you provide additional information re: the focus and content of the program you're involved in currently? It would give us a better idea as to your future goals.
     
  4. David Appleyard

    David Appleyard New Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2002
  5. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    or Social Work.
    Jack
     
  6. David Appleyard

    David Appleyard New Member

    Robert:

    For Counseling, here is Minnesota's statute:

    148B.33 Requirements for licensure.

    Subdivision 1. Documentary evidence of qualifications.
    An applicant for a license shall furnish evidence that the
    applicant:

    (1) has attained the age of majority;

    (2) is of good moral character;

    (3) is a citizen of the United States, or is lawfully
    entitled to remain and work in the United States;

    (4) has at least two years of supervised postgraduate
    experience in marriage and family therapy satisfactory to the
    board;

    (5)(i) has completed a master's or doctoral degree in
    marriage and family therapy from a program in a regionally
    accredited educational institution or from a program accredited
    by the commissioner on accreditations for marriage and family
    therapy education of the American association for marriage and
    family therapy; or (ii) has completed a master's or doctoral
    degree from a regionally accredited educational institution in a
    related field for which the course work is considered by the
    board to be equivalent to that provided in clause (5)(i);

    (6) will agree to conduct all professional activities as a
    licensed marriage and family therapist in accordance with a code
    of ethics for marriage and family therapists to be adopted by
    the board; and

    (7) has passed an examination approved by the board by rule.

    Subd. 2. Fee. Each applicant shall pay a
    nonrefundable application fee set by the board.
     
  7. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Jack, doesn't Massachusetts require 60 semester hours? I thought I saw that somewhere.


    Bruce
     
  8. simon

    simon New Member

    Robert,

    I did'nt take notice initially that you reside in Minnesota!

    Minnesota is one of five states that still has not passed legislation requiring licensure to practice professional or mental health counseling. Therefore, there is'nt any required courses or national examinations as of yet if your goal is in these two counseling areas.

    You mentioned in your initial posting that you plan to take counseling as part of your current graduate program. Is there a specific area of counseling that you wish to specialize ?
     
  9. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    You're probably right, the fact is, I just don't remember. There may be more coursework involved in the MSW degree but another difference is found in the social work internship. Many MA Counseling programs allow people to do an internship but it's not required as it is in MSW programs. Many MA Counseling students elect to take extra courses instead. This seems to be partially due to the perception that taking the courses is easier and partially because finding agencies that will take on MA Counseling interns is increasingly difficult. This is largely due to the refusal of many insurance companies (including Medicaid) to reimburse for the work of Counseling interns (at least this is true in Massachusetts) and so the agencies simply can't afford to take on these interns.
    Jack
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Robert, someone below mentioned that Minnesota is one of five states without requirements (I was unaware that there were any). What that means for you I do not know. At some point they will no doubt adopt something and then there is always the possibility not guarentee of grandfathering.

    In general however the answer to your question is no. There are some D.Min. programs which are geared to meet state licensure requirements for some states (eg in Marriage and Family Therapy). The program will be able to let you know and they will offer courses that parallel the requirements for LPC, LMFT, etc.

    If you are thinking in terms of the ACCS D.Min program then it is not geared for that purpose and states so.

    The issue of counseling under the auspices of a church varies by state. I once had a prof who was an ordained minister. He had a private religious counseling practice without a license. He had the credentials for a license but never took the exam. I think you have to be very careful about what you do and how you advertise.

    If you want DL & to practice/bill in a secular environment then need to pursue the M.A. in Counseling (eg Liberty U's DL program) or one of the Ph.D programs geared that way (I believe Liberty has one and University of Sarasota that will meet LPC). If you just want the D.Min in Counseling to improve your pastoral counseling skills then you are probably fine with the ACCS program or some of the other D.Min. programs not designed for licensure.

    North

     
  11. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Since when have interns been paid? I thought an integral part of the intern experience was getting crapped on and losing money. :D


    Bruce
     
  12. simon

    simon New Member

    Re: Re: couseling requirements

    North:]Robert, someone below mentioned that Minnesota is one of five states without requirements (I was unaware that there were any). What that means for you I do not know. At some point they will no doubt adopt something and then there is always the possibility not guarentee of grandfathering.

    Response: What this means is that at this time one can call themselves a counselor and engage in the practice of counseling without any special course requirements, internships, practicums or national examinations (NCE, NCMHCE) for licensing as a LPC or LCMHC, etc. Will legislation be forthcoming in MInnesota? Hopefully, yes, but the question asked by the poster pertains to the present and unless we know what area of counseling (Mariage and family, community, pastoral, rehabilitation etc) we are not able to provide him with specific direction.

    North: In general however the answer to your question is no. There are some D.Min. programs which are geared to meet state licensure requirements for some states (eg in Marriage and Family Therapy). The program will be able to let you know and they will offer courses that parallel the requirements for LPC, LMFT, etc.

    Response: Good point! So why didn't they? Robert is bringing his question to this forum even though he notes that he can focus on
    counseling within his D.Min. program. A relevant question is whether Robert's program is accredited by appropriate accrediting agencies ? That information would be helpful in understanding his needs and goals.

    North:If you are thinking in terms of the ACCS D.Min program then it is not geared for that purpose and states so.

    Response: Good feedback! However, once again until we have clarification as to Rpbert's area of interest we are all 'shooting in the dark".


    North:The issue of counseling under the auspices of a church varies by state. I once had a prof who was an ordained minister. He had a private religious counseling practice without a license. He had the credentials for a license but never took the exam. I think you have to be very careful about what you do and how you advertise.

    If you want DL & to practice/bill in a secular environment then need to pursue the M.A. in Counseling (eg Liberty U's DL program) or one of the Ph.D programs geared that way (I believe Liberty has one and University of Sarasota that will meet LPC). If you just want the D.Min in Counseling to improve your pastoral counseling skills then you are probably fine with the ACCS program or some of the other D.Min. programs not designed for licensure.

    Response: Excellent feedback North! However, we don't know whether this poster wants to be a LPC, LCMC, LMFT,CSW,CRC or whether he is even interested in obtaining any licensing.
     
  13. irat

    irat New Member

    do pastoral counselors charge fees?

    Counseling, licensing and practicing are interesting topics.
    Do you intend to bill clients/consumers for your service? or do you plan to work under an agency like a church offering pastoral counseling or an agency offering some type of counseling?
    If you plan to open a private practice, would you bill insurance companies? or only accept clients/consumers who pay cash?
    Insurance companies have some of their own requirements. But usually seem to require at least a license in MH, or a license in Social Work, or a license in alcohol and drugs, or a license in psy.
    In some cases the insurance carrier has stiffer rules than the state licensing agency.
    The state licensing seems to require a minimum of a masters degree (in some states phd). Each license has specific requirement minimums in coursework and practicums which must be met.
    Finally, something to consider is liability insurance. Would the credential you obtain make liability insurance cheap, or expensive. and in this day and age I would not recommend a private practice without liability insurance.
    Good Luck!
     
  14. simon

    simon New Member

    A posting above indicates that "many" counseling programs offer students the option of taking courses in lieu of an internship. This is not fact. The majority of masters degree counseling programs in diverse counseling specializations, require practicums and internships that cannot be substituted with coursework. See below.


    In fact, a comparison of the coursework required by these two professions has been made in depth. It demonstrates that in many counseling programs, such as in mental health counseling, there is more coursework in clinical areas than offered by a number of social work programs.

    It is important to note that there are a number of sub-areas of social work that do not emphasize the clinical aspects including policy development, administrative, and other speccalizations.

    A comparison of the curriculums offered by these two disciplines is delineated in detail by going to the website listed below:

    http://www.counseling.org/resources/pc_sw.htm#Comparative[/url]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2002
  15. Robert

    Robert New Member

    Thanks so much for the good feed back. I am currently a Pastor and already do premarital and family couseling as a part of my profession. I do not charge for this service. My interest is in the area of family counseling. I am in the front end of a DMIN program from ACCS and was currious as to what the requirements might be.
    Are there special requirements for a Family couselor?
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Let me second your statement Simon. I know in my state the internship within the Masters program is required for licensure. It is not possible to substitute course work. This is distinct from the supervision hours required after the degree in order to qualify to take the exam.

    While on the topic, I cannot state strongly enough that anyone hoping to be licensed should check with their state board. For example, at one time (may still be) Southern Christian University's M.A. in Counseling was a certain number of quarter hours which worked out to 36 credit hours. In Alabama it qualified you to take the LPC exam. In many states it would not because of the number of credit hours. Liberty U at one time sent their M.A. student a comprehensive book detailing various state requirements. So, don't gamble.


    North

     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    My understanding is that the LMFT has pretty much sown that up. Again, it depends on which setting and how you want to advertise. As you are a pastor and likely to be doing pastoral counseling this may not be an issue. If the ACCS D.Min. provides helpful coursework (I have found it to be so) then great. You get an accredited doctorate that is applicable to your field. You might even be able to charge as a pastoral counselor (i.e. put out a shingle). This is something you would need to check with state authorities about in terms of how you advertise and what you call it. I remember an LPC who told me she got a warning letter from the local APA regarding her using the term "Psychology" in her yellow page advertisement.

    If one the other hand you want to step into the secular world and do Marriage and Family Therapy then that is another matter. In my state you would need a license. In terms of who can do *Family Therapy* there is no magic formula. Psychiatrists do it, Psychologists do it, LPC's do it, LMSW's do it (I think I feel a song coming on). The common denominator is the license. The idea is consumer protection. That does not mean you may not get a flaky therapist (I've met them). However, it is designed to protect people from individuals who have whipped out one of those strange certification courses from what Steve Levicoff called counseling certfication mills and then proceeding to advertise themselves as if they were fully trained secular psychotherapists.

    North

     
  18. Howard

    Howard New Member

     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Howard,

    Glad to hear Alabama has tightened that up. One of the things important for the continued progression (IMHO) of LPC's is for states to continue develop some sort of uniformity. My state requires a 48 credit hr Masters with internship & 3000 post graduation hours prior to taking the exam. I understand that there are some states requiring 60 credit hours. I think this is important considering the competition with other providers such as MSW's. Unfortunately, the preference still exists in many areas for MSW's (reimbursement).

    Just as a side comment, I work with a lady whose husband is a Psychiatrist. She felt that Psychologists were people who could not get into medical school.

    North
     
  20. simon

    simon New Member

     

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