DL Nursing Programs? Are they a mistake?

My daughter is considering doing a nursing program. I have two concerns so I thought I would solicit your opinions.

1. Do you think she could get a job with a DL nursing degree?

2. We have all heard of the nursing shortage, but I'm concerned that it will turn out like the teacher shortage in the '90's. Schools are currently packed with nursing students and, like the teacher shortage that turned into the current glut, I'm afraid that there will be a glut of nurses in several years.

Anyone have insight?

 

The nursing degree would require a practical component so hands-on are required. She would need to set that up on her own so that may be a bit hard. I am not sure how that works. If she finishes, I would not expect a probelm getting a job.

I work in healthcare and there has been a nursing shortage for the past 15 years (from what I hear and see). A lot of people get into it and realize they hate it so there is a constant turnover.

 

There are no pure DL nursing programs except at the post-RN level.

Clinical experience is required for the RN. Moreover, there are no DL CNA and LPN/LVN programs.

 

Are there good programs that are partial DL?

 

Yes, I worry about that too. What if she goes to all that expense and trouble and then hates it? I wonder if there is some way she could experience it before she starts a program.

 

I can tell you that there is a flood of nurses entering the market first hand. I live in a small county in Texas. We have five school districts and one community college. All five school districts offer a LVN program and the college offers an LVN and RN program. The LVN programs are turning out hundreds of Nurses a year and the RN program turned out over a hundred as well. It was just the other day I was talking to the staffing coordinator at my wife’s work (she’s a nurse) This is the first time in the history of the company they have had more applications then spots to put them. A lot of the nurses graduating are not finding work, they get dozens of applications a day, Dozens! Now like I said I live in a small county, but they are doing this all over Texas. The guy I was talking works at three of the companies facilities, two of them are in Houston, TX. They are no longer hiring for those spots as well. On top of all this they dropped the starting pay 2 dollars an hour, that’s a big deal. The shortage is now over from what I see. Pay will go down as the demand goes down. Pay will soon reflect what a nurse truly is, a person with a two year degree.

This all reminds me of the Radiology boom that happened starting about ten years ago. It was a little know field that paid real good, you could start off at 25+ an hour with a two year degree and with a few special certifications make 30+ an hour. Now you can't find a job. If you do, you will make around 15 an hour. My friends girl finished her degree in radiology about a year ago and has not had one interview.

And yes your are right it is going to be like the teacher boom. We all know booms are followed by busts. CA may not be over saturated with nurse like we are here though. Check the market, talk to some local nurses. One more thing to remember is the mass influx of immigrant nurses coming to the US. A few years ago before my changed jobs she worked at the local hospital, it seemed to me around 10-15% of their staff were Pilipino nurses. The hospital would go over there and hire nurses to work in the US. They would put them to work as a GRN or GLVN which means they have graduated and are waiting to take the test. They would get them to sign a contract to work a certain amount of time, and these girls were making half of what other nurses made. I am glad my wife has moved into a management spot, a lot of the nurses are mad and worried about the Filipinos flooding into the US.

 

Panola College has a DL program with a short in house part at the end.

 

Thank you. This is the kind of insight I was looking for. Looks like maybe my gut feelings were correct.

 

Off the top of my head are two schools: Chamberlain College of Nursing and Kaplan (I've heard that Kaplan is quite expensive).

I searched the forums and found this discussion from early last year:
http://forums.degreeinfo.com/distance-learning-discussions/30231-semi-online-rn-programs.html

 

Yes Kaplan is sickening in their pricing for the program. People are willing to pay those prices because they think they will make a ton of cash when they get done. Just like the masters is needed now days in the business world the Bachelors will be needed for nursing soon.

 

I think she would be better of going to massage therapy school. They charge 60 an hour. Heck the guy that moved into the 150,000 house down the road from me is a message therapist so they must be doing good.....lol

 

Does it have to be a DL program? Seems like there should be a ton of options in California.

 

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The only DL RN degree out there is Excelsior, and that's only open to someone entering with patient care- like an LPN or EMT. Also, EC nurses can NOT get licensed in all states. As mentioned, you have to set up your own local clinicals, and the NCLEX fail rate is enough to stop someone cold- it's around 80%. I'm sure you want a source, I'm still on my first cup of coffee, but I can find it if you want.

She needs her RN before worrying about distance learning. That happens locally. Your local program sets up the entrance requirements. It takes MANY PEOPLE in excess of 2 years to get in. This is a combination of doing the prereq science sequence, wait lists, and mass of applicants balanced against the nursing educator and clinical site shortage.

Once she has her RN, ANYTHING else she gets can be via DL. I have not yet found a path (except anesthesia) that you couldn't do DL. Also, funny thing. An RN can become an RN without a degree. A diploma (if you can find a program) is enough. There are associate and bachelor degree programs too, but they all get paid the same. It's when you break rank and go into management or want to become an NP that you see more money and the higher educational requirement.

My thoughts- you can do a bunch of the process via DL. I am. Gen eds, prereqs, etc. Then, when the time comes, you only have nursing left. I earned my BA at TESC through DL. Now, I'm completing the entire premed science sequence through DL. It can be done. I don't have the RN, and when classes start, those will be on the ground.

If you want her to get a taste of nursing clinical and academia, I have an Rx for her.

1. Complete the Certified Nurses Aid program.
I second this suggestion offered above. I did the CNA earlier this spring. The CNA programs are offered through continuing ed depts, and cost about $400. She will get about 75 hours hands on, and upon completion, could get a job that pays about $10 per hour. (perfect for a student who wants a few days per week) This is also a DIRECT patient care job, and a great network into the RN job if she goes that route. These workers do not have to work in nursing homes, hospitals hire CNAs for a number of jobs.

2. Sign up for Anatomy and Physiology (or complete the prereqs for it)
This class series (1 and 2) can be the brick wall for many wanna-be-nurses. It's required in EVERY nursing program in the country. She can take this now, and it will give her a taste....then if she decides to go forward, she will have met one of the requirements. If not, it's general education science credit she can use on another degree. If she wants it online I have sources, but MOST people want to do this face to face.

At the end of those two steps, she will have a MUCH BETTER idea if nursing is for her. Too many people go in blind.

Good luck to her!

 

This is a very good idea.

 

This is very good info, Dr. Chef. I was hoping to hear from you, knowing of your experience in the field. Going in blind is what makes me nervous for her happiness and for the fact that I have to pay for it.

 

Great suggestions. CNA work gives you a view of the lower end of the healthcare field and gives you some great hands-on. The A&P classes are deal breakers for many want-a-be nursing students. Take the pre-reqs (I would not suggest via CLEP so you get a real feel) and see if the interest is still there.

 

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It's possible that CLEP isn't an option, some schools are picky about using CLEP sciences. She would have to take the college's assessment exam for placement. If she ends up in a developmental English or math, they won't let her into Intro Chem and Intro Biology. That's a big deal, because she just added 1 year to her schedule. Here is a basic nursing prereq plan. This will mesh with most programs. Some colleges require an application a full year in advance, and some require the prereqs be COMPLETE before application! So, in a worse-case situation, it could be 4 years from today for entry. I'd CLEP anything they let me CLEP, because this is the kind of program where you are taking sequences, and every step you add is another 16 weeks. Also, my online AP class did not have bio/chem prereqs but really, almost all of them do.

semester 1:
developmental English
developmental Math

semester 2:
intro biology
intro chemistry
general math/algebra depending on the school
English comp

summer

semester 3:
ap 1
intro psych

semester 4:
ap 2
human growth development

summer

semester 5:
microbiology

 

Hi Jennifer,

Actually, Excelsior is not the only game in town. The University of Wisconsin - Oshkosh offers an Accelerated Online Bachelor's to BSN. A bachelor's in any subject, pre-reqs and a CNA are required for admission. Residents located in these states may apply.

 

First of all, the nursing profession is the only healthcare profession I know of that has so many diverse avenues to become licensed. There are traditional day classes, night classes, weekend programs, distant learning programs, part time residency programs, challenge programs, etc., that lead to associate through doctoral degrees as well as initial licensure through advanced practice licensing. Most of all the other healthcare routes require that you attend a traditional school full time. So nursing is very flexible in its learning delivery style.

With that said, experience plays a great role in the healthcare sector. Book knowledge is important but I would have to say that for an initial employment opportunity, experience will have the most weight during the interview.


Your question is, "Is DL nursing worth it?" For initial licensure, I would certainly say NO!

There are too many things one needs to learn through "hands on" experience and most DL programs teach the bare bone basics! If you don't mind stumbling your first few months on the job then go for it! However, the job market is competitive right now and healthcare organizations don't have the desire nor funds to provide an in-depth orientation and instruction if they don't have to.

In addition, there are still many battle axe nurse managers/preceptors that love to "eat their young." They have no desire to mentor and precept and very little patience to instruct new graduate nurses in the basics that were supposed to be covered in school!

I didn't have the luxury to quit my full time job and go to traditional nursing school but if I did, I would have went that route! However, I am grateful that nursing educators have enabled me and so many nursing students to receive all levels of education through the wide variety of learning modalities. The distant learning route is not an easier route! On the contrary, it presents numerous obstacles and challenges that requires self discipline, flexibility, inquiry and above all, a kind hearted, knowledgeable mentor!