Ph.D. is in Counseling or Psychology

I saw this posted way back in 2002.. did not even know that had sites like this way back then, but maybe things have change in that time .

I am at Walden right now , and I am thinking about going to Liberty becuase of the cost. But Liberty Ph. D is in Counseling not Psychology.. do you guys think this would really change my job out looks that much? .

Also how much do professors make on average becuase that is what I really want to do.

Thank you.

 

A Ph.D. in Counseling may or may not help you. There is "Counseling Psychology" on a Masters level and Ph.D. level typically but not a "Ph.D. in Counseling." If what you want is to teach at a college or university you would be better served by getting a General Psychology Ph.D. after you get a masters for counseling licensure (if that is where you are going) or in some form of Family Psych or a Ph.D. in Counselor Education. These, in my opinion, have a better reception academically if you are going to teach, either full time or part-time.

 

Adams State University, Capella University, Liberty University, Oregon State University, Regent University, and Walden University all offer the PhD in Counseling.

 

Is therapy your interest?
There are many master's level programs in counseling both online and offline that make one eligible to practice. Clinical/Counseling Psychology is not generally practiced at the masters level, but there are some programs (e.g. master's in counseling psychology) where you could apply for LPC or masters-level psychotherapist licensure with practicum. In counseling, achieving LPC licensure with a master's is generally all one needs to practice therapy. A Ph.D. would be helpful if you want to teach or conduct research.

You could still potentially do lower-level teaching, research or psychomtery with a master's in psychology. But you need a Ph.D./Psy.D. to become a clinical/counseling psychologist. Licensure is a bit difficult without APA accreditation in most states as well, and there aren't any programs online that are accredited by the APA.

 

Most states don't require APA accreditation. IIRC, only one or two states (if any) require APA accreditation. The problem is whether or not most jobs on the market will require APA accreditation. From what I've seen, the federal government now requires APA-accredited degrees. Before, they just required APA internships, but those are hard to get when you're not coming from an APA degree program.

There is one distance program that's APA-accredited, and that's at Fielding Graduate University. The OP created this thread over 5 years ago, but I thought I'd include this information for anyone who comes across it.
Clinical Psychology, Psychology Doctoral Program, Psychology Degree

 

True, but progammatic accreditation is pretty important at the PhD/PsyD level in psychology. As you said, VA settings are off limits without the accreditation, and in many of the states that do not require APA accreditation, you have to show equivalency in training. That being said, it shouldn't be considered a necessity if one is not interested in practicing therapy/testing. Very few non-clinical specialities have their own accreditation, so regional accreditation should suffice. But you can see clear differences in licensure rates between APA and non APA accredited programs. I'm sure many people who completed the PsyD at Capella aren't interested in clinical practice, but their licensure rate is atrocious.

Fielding is a distributive learning model program combining British and American psychological training models.
1. One has to set up their own practicum and attend local meetings regularly (clusters). I've heard of some people doing practicum after their coursework is complete, however.
2. The program is not eligible in all states (none are eligible in Hawaii, Oklahoma, Georgia, Kansas, or Alaska).
3. It is very expensive (about 100 grand).
Not that I'm looking down on the program (I've considered it myself, and would already be there if it weren't expensive), but too many people act like its a distance learning godsend. Having programmatic accreditation is very impressive, but the program has its flaws like any other.

 

As I understand it (and I know this varies from state to state) you can become licensed at the Masters level and if you then push on and earn a PhD you can still practice therapy based on that same license. It really has nothing to do with whether your PhD is APA accredited or not. Most Therapists these days are Masters level therapists and a PhD is just gravy. Most Therapists don't even consider pushing to that level. The people I know in that profession would basically say, "Why bother?" Now we had a member recently who was very up-front about the fact that he was thinking of a doctoral degree almost as a marketing tool, the fancy bow on the package in order to make his private practice more attractive to some. That's OK I guess, but not necessary.

 

Valid points. I met a therapist in New York who is a certified psychotherapist with a MSW, and markets herself as a Dr. with a PhD in transpersonal psychology. My big point was to separate a psychotherapy from a psychologist license. There are differences in duties, educational requirements, and licensure process. I apologize if it seemed as though I was implying APA or bust. That's not the case for psychotherapy.

 

Programs that aren't APA-accredited usually have a poor licensure rate because of the limited number of available internships. Even those at lower-ranked or unranked, APA-accredited schools have a tough time with landing internships.

I've heard before that psychotherapists can bill more if they have a PhD. I don't know much about that, but the PhD is also a marketing tool. However, a psychologist has a greater scope of practice than someone practicing on a masters-level license. In two states, psychologists can prescribe medication after completing a master's in pharmacology.

 

I don't this this is so true...most states to require apa accred.

 

Do you have a list?

 

http://www.asppb.org/HandbookPublic/HandbookReview.aspx

 

I've looked at that list. It doesn't show that most states require APA accreditation.

 

Huh? are you sure you're reading it correctly? I went through almost every state and I was only able to find Cali, Texas and I think two more states that don't require it.

 

oh yea and arizona and I think colorodo

 

I looked at the summary report because I wasn't going to go through all 50 states. The reports for each state are confusing and require going to the state's official website for more information. Take Arkansas, for example. It says that APA and CPA accreditation are allowed for licensure. Of course, they are. The question is whether or not CPA or APA accreditation is required. It's not. A doctoral degree from just a regionally accredited school is fine as long as certain requirements are met.
http://psychologyboard.arkansas.gov/lawsRegs/Documents/2009_Rules_rev2.pdf

If you look at Alabama's report, you would think that APA accreditation is required. It is not. APA accreditation just means that your program automatically meets their board's requirements. A non-APA accredited degree is fine as long as it meets the board's specifically listed requirements.
http://www.psychology.alabama.gov/PDF/PsychologyBrochureFebruary2013.pdf

Once again, if you look at Alaska's report, you would think APA accreditation is required. It is not. APA accreditation just means that you automatically meet their listed requirements. Programs that do not have APA accreditation can still meet their requirements. As a matter of fact, this is what Alaska says about the issue:

http://commerce.state.ak.us/dnn/Portals/5/pub/PsychologistStatutes.pdf

The same applies to Connecticut. Not having graduated from an APA-accredited program is fine as long as the program meets the listed criteria.
http://www.ct.gov/dph/lib/dph/practitioner_licensing_and_investigations/plis/psychology/psych_regs.pdf

I'm seeing a trend here, so I'm not going to go any further. This is similar to how some states say that AACSB and ACBSP-accredited programs automatically meet requirements for CPA licensure, but programs that aren't programatically accredited can still qualify by meeting listed requirements.

 

So equivalency in training like I said. It's still highly advantageous to have what with the internship crisis and working for the VA. But it wouldn't be a kiss of death if it were a good price or a marketing tool to enhance a master's license. There's also clinical respecialization route for those with non-clinical PhDs.

 

People need to seriously calculate the ROI in these cases. Maybe as a PhD you can bill a bit more. Maybe not. It depends on the insurance company paying the bill. Maybe they don't want to pay you more and they'll send their clients to a Masters level therapist who charges less. This is how Psychiatrists stopped doing therapy - the insurance companies wouldn't reimburse them at a high enough rate because they could send clients to a MA/MSW. Maybe it's good for marketing but that's a pretty expensive marketing plan. How many years and how many thousands of dollars are you going to spend pursuing a PhD when it isn't actually necessary? Most therapists decide that it's just not worth it and they become licensed at the Masters level without any worry about APA/non-APA issues.

 

I'm trying to find it so I can post it but the NASW has a list of avg annual incomes for social workers in private practice and those w/ PhD's were significantly higher. If one could find an online 3-4 year PhD for $35,000-45,000 that would be a very smart investment.