I think that much of psychology can be learned via distance education, but there are some things that you will only get by interacting with people in a more clinical setting (volunteer or paid). There are also a lot of things that don't especially translate well to online or textbook learning -- interaction, respect and interviewing are just a few. Of course, these are mostly taught at the graduate level (except respect which is usually taught 101+). Psychology as a major is steeply rising, but people actually seeking psychology jobs doesn't seem to be following the same curve. This is mostly anecdotal, but I am constantly seeing people who are/were psychology majors who go into jobs that are only vaguely related to the subject. Like management, HR, HS coach and PE teacher. I've talked to a couple of people and the idea that came across is that a degree in psychology proves that you are better at interpersonal communication and problem-solving than if you get a related degree. Which isn't really the case, but I can see why someone wants to stand out in their field by having a different major than many of their colleagues.
Not to mention its easier than say a STEM degree. It sounds more impressive than getting your basic booger-head liberal arts degree. If you do not go on to advance studies, its pretty worthless in the job market. Quit reading feel good stories about how every major in college is a slam dunk.
Hopefully that last bit wasn't directed at me! I'm practically a dyed-in-the-wool psychology student. If you deal mostly with people on a day-to-day basis and don't lean towards science or technology, then yeah anything that has more to do with people will be easier than (say) physics. By the same token, mathematicians may have a hard time with a gerontology course. I don't like getting edged out and waitlisted for classes by people with zero intention of ever working in psychology (and most don't even major in psychology). But it happens with every major, so I don't get too huffy about it. I also see this with English majors (seeking non-english work), but I don't know enough about the market to know if it's because of necessity or not.
you guys are killing me. As someone with a "booger-head liberal arts degree" I can tell you that an English degree has very good applicability provided you have some other relevant experience. I completed an English degree to compliment my technical background. The ability to write and communicate in writing will always serve an individual and his/her employees well. In my personal experience my ability to write has provided my subordinates with many raises, bonuses, and in some cases, the very job they held. In addition, the skills acquired in critical thinking and writing are very relevant to problem solving at all levels. Don't sell liberal arts degrees short but I would advise not being too esoteric in the chosen field. I'll go off and work on my monosyllabic technical stuff now....
I don't think that a liberal arts education or major is a bad thing at all. I also don't think it requires less intelligence. I hear people constantly kvetch about "having to" take humanities as part of their "STEM" degree when they don't enjoy it. Meanwhile, I moan and groan about having to take Calculus I as a part of my liberal arts education. I'm just saying that it's always interesting when people either go after degrees outside their current field OR select a career that is not the same as their formal education. I am one of those people. I work for a game design company, do IT work, ran/run a web development company... and I'm a psyc major. Not business, not tech, but psychology. If you count in that I'll be taking a nursing program next, on paper it doesn't make any sense. It's something that I love, that I'm passionate about, but that I don't see the need to seek a formal education in that area. (Except Flash, because I need to learn that in a formal setting apparently). I agree that critical thinking is key to success, as is the ability to read/write ('rithmetize?) very well. If you add in confidence with public speaking, you are suddenly a very big asset to yourself and to your company. I'm not trying to dog every other major, there was just a good question that was posed and I wanted to clarify my thoughts on it without totally jacking the other person's thread.
But we should at least discuss other majors since many folks who are completing degrees do so without thinking beyond the diploma. The reality is very few degrees can offer a good chance of employment immediately after graduation.
That's very true and I agree Education is the most important investment I'll ever make, so I'm very careful with the choices I make with it.
I like psychology and almost chose it as my major. As a hiring manager, though -- well, we're all looking for the standout candidate, and Psych kind of has an "I didn't know what to major in, so I went for Psych 'cuz the math isn't too bad" generic quality to it. Not to say booger-headed, though, that would be CJ. From an employment perspective, it's good to have something else to offer no matter what you studied in school. Phillip
Looking at the graph of pay by college major is always interesting. Interesting in the fact that Psych is usually at the bottom. Note the comment above, from a hiring manager; Psych not so much of a differentiator... Top 8 majors by salary are all pretty math intensive, and after that you have Political Science - of course they make money, most crooks do. Read some books at the library if you value "education". Why do you need someone Else's (a professors)approval, and you even need someone else to tell you what to study? You like a subject learn about it, otherwise just admit that we all go to school to try and make more money in a career to support our families. Then you are close to admitting that OVERALL liberal arts majors are not a path way to success as sold by most institutions. Good luck in your studies.
I think it's more an issue of informed consent. I majored in social science because I wanted a degree, I didn't need one; and I wanted an interesting course of study. I didn't particularly care about the other subjects, I just got through them with as little pain and suffering as possible. Social Sciences is an interesting subject to me, and I'm naturally drawn to many subjects about people- so there was some intrinsic value for me. Now, I knew full well that I wouldn't be acquiring a vocational skill by studying what I studied. Sadly, I know many degree holders who majored in liberal arts area like psychology, literature, art, etc. and who work as hourly employees at the mall, cell phone company, and best buy...but don't know why. That’s the kicker. They don't understand why their degree didn't "get" them a high paying job. Yes, buyer beware- but I think college advising is being viewed by consumers as a holy profession rather than the sales profession it actually is. Parents and students, in my opinion, really believe that if a college offers a program- then there must be something that can be done with that degree. Colleges don't provide the right information for students to make a good decision- and I'm not totally saying they should- but people are too easy when it comes to buying education. It's like asking a car salesman why you shouldn't buy a car from him- doesn’t happen. No one who wants to keep his/her advising job is going to tell you to go into one dept over the other, or worse yet, don’t go to our college-enlist in the military-go to community college. People blindly take "advice" from advisers. People are in love with the entire idea of college, are terrified and intimidated by the possibility that their child might not have "a good education" and thus are willing to do whatever it takes- which is expensive stupidity. It’s hard to sort it all out. It’s hard to figure out the intricacy of good career preparation balanced with sensible and wise return on investment questions. Maybe if someone said “hey, unless you plan on spending these 4-5 years and then another 5-7 more years in a psychology or counseling graduate program and obtaining/maintaining a license, this degree won’t get you a job” then people would think twice. Instead you get “people skills are important in all aspects of business”….blah blah blah sign here....which is an expensive load of crap.
Obviously your education is far more superior to mine, as I could not have said it better myself. I know it is sacrilegious to not be ecstatic about college on this board, and don't get me wrong I love it here, but we and our children are being sold a bill of goods on education. Kind of like the oft quoted BA holders earn a million more over non BA holders over a lifetime. There are so many factors that go into to that statement...it’s very disingenuous to use that as a "sales" technique. Facing facts, college is NOT for everyone. Anyway, well said cookderosa.
Well, my "booger-headed" liberal arts BS has done pretty well for me in the year or so that I've had it. It helped me into a new career with the federal government and it is currently helping me move to a position with the scientific branch of my agency. I work in law enforcement and my psychology studies are a godsend in my line of work because I deal with people from all walks of life, including violent and unmedicated mentally ill individuals. Not too shabby for a punch ticket degree.
Cool. What agency? What Fed series are you? A BA will get you a GS-05 position, unless you have superior academic achievement in which case you can get a GS-07 position. Not exactly burning up the pay scale. One mans dream job is another man's "I'll settle for this" job. Still, a statistical sample of 1 is a great way to judge the utility of a college major I bet you would have attained the same status you are in now without the degree. I am also willing to bet you know plenty of people in the .gov who hold high positions and do not have college degrees. Get a degree in whatever you want. Just know that reality is often not reflected within these feel good walls. Perhaps I, like many others, had expectations that a degree was a "ticket" so to speak to a better paying more stable career. Being laid-off and having no full-time permanent position does tend to sour the grapes, so to speak. Cory
If you have a degree (in anything) and three years of work experience you meet some of the basic qualifications for an FBI Special Agent, other federal law enforcement agencies are similar. If your degree included 24 hours in business subjects you meet the basic qualifications for acquisition/contracting officer positions(1102 series). The two positions I describe above are well above the GS-05 paygrade. In most instances, unless you came into the service a loooonnnnggg time ago, the requirements for a degree are firm and the average person would not qualify today without a degree (there are exceptions). I do know many folks in the upper ranks of the government without degrees. Some are political appointees, others came into the service many years ago and hung around long enough to get to their current position. In my office most have at least a bachelors and many of us have graduate degrees. Keep in mind however that the government must be reflective of the society it serves so you will find (as in industry) many folks with all different educational backgrounds with the exception of those positions that have a positive education requirment.
Here's a link (one of many) suggesting what you can do with a degree in psychology (http://www.psychologymajors.com/what-can-i-do-with-my-undergraduate-psychology-degree). My son recently graduated with a BS in psychology (business minor) from Montclair State University. He had a 3.7 GPA. He's been looking for a job for 4 months and hasn't been successful yet. I personally believe the problem is the economy not his major.
I'm not so sure; a lot of federal jobs seem to have the "check box" when it comes to hiring. Many GS positions require a bachelors degree; doesn't exactly matter what in, but they need to be able to check the box. Sort of like becoming a military Officer; sure, you could become a warrant Officer, but a regular commissioned Officer without a bachelors degree is pretty rare. I used to work with a GS-11 @ step 9 who was a retired Chief Petty Officer a few years ago. He got a bachelors degree at the young age of 50, and with that degree he was able to apply for and get a GS-13 @ step 5 position. It was a general business degree, but it could have been in basket weaving and he still would have got the position. He had all the experience required, just no degree to check off the list... Check this site out, too: http://www.usajobs.gov/EI27.asp
I'm sure the Chief would have been able to get the GS-13 position without the degree too. Noted from the website you provided: "Except for certain professional discussed under the section, "What If I Have a College Degree?", college education may not be necessary. The nature of your specialized experience is what really counts. Job applicants can qualify for most Federal occupations based on job related work experience." I'm trying to get on full-time with the federal government. Where I am located the pay for the most part is pretty good, the benefits are OK, and I can use my active duty time to help with retirement. I agree that the job market does make a difference.
>> I feel for your son, and I don't want to appear argumentative, but the site you posted is from "psychologymajors dot com" and the intent is to up-sell the idea of psych as a major. (which they do a poor job of doing). Your son needs to be in grad school if he wants a psych job. Psychology is currently the number one undergrad college major in the USA, the applicant pool is filled with the same resume over and over. Here is their "list" of what to do with a psych degree. I have a few comments in red, I'm not even in business, so I'm sure others can add more applicable comments. I think this list makes the case against psychology as a major without a clear end game in mind - unless- you are going for the educational value of education. Which, there is nothing wrong with IMO- I still think it's about informed consent. This might be a good list for the "ut-oh, what can I do now that I already have my psych degree?" But certainly not as THE option for breaking in or having the best preparation. Human Services. Federal, state, and local governments as well as many non-profit organizations are eager to hire those with an undergraduate degree in psychology. Bachelor in social work is the real degree for this field, human services is also a degree option • Administration. Any administrative position in government or in other organizations can utilize those with a psychology degree. Throw in a business double major or minor, and any company will find you indispensable. wow- 22 year old applying for an admin position in government and industry as the first job out of college? And which organizations exactly can "utilize those with a psychology degree?" Do they mean HR? Industrial Psych? • Community Relations. This fascinating field covers a wide range of jobs—working as an advocate, an outreach coordinator, an event coordinator and more. 1 • Public Relations. As a public relations specialist, you’ll work with the media, write press releases and other materials, do research and fundraising, organize events and more. 2 • Advertising & Market Research. More and more Advertising Agencies are hiring those with a psychology background to help formulate advertising strategies. 3 - Three nearly identical jobs/career paths, all better served by a degree in those areas! Communication, PR, marketing, sales...direct paths already exist. • Teaching. If you also obtain a teaching certificate along with your degree, you can teach in both public and private schools. LOL Where? In the single psych class being offered quarterly at some high schools? Really? Teachers get degrees in teaching. Notice they suggest getting a certificate- uh, yeah. What they suggest is an alternate track- and that won't always work, but it's never THE best way to become a teacher! • Retail and Sales. Every retail organization understands the power that a psychology degree can bring to their bottom line; these companies are always eager to hire those with a background in psychology! This is where other people work while in college- a place they can leave once they graduate. Following their line of reasoning, I'll add being a waitress. I can say that a psych degree might help you deal with difficult customers!
Many entry level positions start at a GS-05 or 7 but top out at higher grades. I am currently in an 1895 series which tops out non-competitively at GS-11 step 10. Management positions start at GS-12 and 13, and executive positions go up into the high teens. Also keep in mind that many locations offer locality or cost of living allowances, which in my case adds 25% to base salary. LEO's also make special allowances or get double pay for overtime. I agree, one man's dream job is another man's settlement job... or woman's in this case. I know a lot of GS-04 and 5 seasonal Park Rangers who wouldn't trade their jobs for the world. A lot of people will also take an entry level job with the fed and then transfer to their desired agency down the road when there are openings or the person has more experience. I was simply sharing my experience. But what others have said is true, many positions only require an accredited degree in any subject in lieu of specialized job experience. Yes, specialized experience may replace the need for a degree in many entry level positions. However, the good ol' boy system is not as strong as it once was. Many promotions require a degree now. Yep, you seem pretty sour! But I wish you luck in your search. The Federalsoup.com Career Development forum is a great resource for people looking for federal jobs.
Very true. I literally just finished my A.S. (in Liberal Studies, no less) and I am currently making $60k. I'm certainly not stating my income to brag, rather to show that one does not always need a college degree to have a professional level job that pays well.
