Is anyone studying in a healthcare program?

Discussion in 'Nursing and medical-related degrees' started by Gregory Gulick DO, Sep 7, 2005.

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  1. Gregory Gulick DO

    Gregory Gulick DO New Member

    I was just curious if anyone was involved in a healthcare program. I've been lurking on this message board for a long time, but I do not see too many discussions about healthcare degrees. So I was just wondering if anyone out there was working on a degree in healthcare administration or something similar?

    In May I finished my MPH through A.T. Still University of Health Sciences School of Health Management (http://www.shm.atsu.edu). I highly, highly recommend the program. I started the program during the first year of my residency and finished it at the end of my second year of residency. I took about two courses each quarter and it was tough balancing the demands of residency with my coursework. Most of the professors, however, were very flexible and allowed me extensions if I needed one.

    When I completed the program it had an emphasis on public health administration, and I think they now offer different areas that students can focus on. The program is growing and I think the future is bright for ATSU/SHM.

    So is anyone else doing a healthcare program? I'd be interested in hearing about it.

    Thanks!
     
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Dr. Gulick,

    Welcome!

    Usually when people discuss healthcare here it's about foreign-based "distance learning" scams through which one can earn an "MD" without the rigor one would expect. (You'll be happy to know that Osteopathy has thus far been overlooked by these people.)

    There are legitimate offerings out there, though. The online campus of my employer, Keiser College, has a (regionally accredited) Associate of Science in Medical Assisting available entirely at a distance.

    So, what do you plan to do with your MPH?

    -=Steve=-
     
  3. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Welcome Dr. Gulick! I'm not in a healthcare program... but I play someone who is on TV. (Just kidding!)

    There are two -- well, three, really... depending on how you want to count... but from just two institutions, between the three -- healthcare programs (or, really, in the case of the third, departments that offer programs) that I like to recommend to people who make the sort of inquiry you've made here:
    • For those interested in a healthcare administration masters degree who need maximum economy, flexibility and simplicity of delivery/testing method -- and who are okay with the masters degree being nationally- rather than regionally-accredited -- I never hesitate to recommend Ashworth College's Master's Degree in Healthcare Administration. At under $5,000; and payable -- interest free -- at $99/month, it's probably the least expensive of its type out there. For those with crazy time schedules and meager financial means who aren't too worried that their degree will be dissed by an employer (or potential employer) because it's nationally- rather than regionally-accredited, it's probably the best deal out there.
    • It's no secret around here that, 'een though I be a Lutheran, I'm a huge fan of the Sisters of Mercy, who, of course, sponsor or co-sponsor some six healthcare systems; and who also own/operate some 19 colleges/universities. One of them, the regionally-accredited St. Joseph's College of Maine (SJCME) (which I've also hailed around here for its unusual -- and unusually ethical -- MBA in Leadership), offers what I consider to be one of the hands-down best Master in Health Services Administration degrees out there. If the Sisters of Mercy can't teach how to run a healthcare facility -- and ethically and humanely -- then I don't know who can. Those who are familiar with healthcare administration degrees at the masters level will, upon close examination of the SJCME coursework, quickly recognize that, just as SJCME's MBA in Leadership is different for its concentratration on ethical and responsible behavior (more than most other MBA's out there), SJCME's healthcare services administration masters program offers a body of coursework that prepares a healthcare administrator like none other that I've seen out there. Though I didn't look it up, I assume the tuition is about the same as for the MBA ($270/credit hour); and though it's nearly completely by distance learning, a weeklong resident summer intensive is usually required in all of SJCME's masters programs. Given how beautiful is the campus and that which surrounds it, most people don't complain too much about that requirement. And as I have pointed-out here in other threads, SJCME has a reputation for not treating its distance learning students -- or any of its students, actually -- like cattle (as do so many other institutions). I confess that SJCME is one of my favorite institutions out there, and I realize that that bias is probably well-telegraphed in my words, here... but not without good reason. SJCME, just generally, is best-of-breed, in my opinion. I say it so much that I sometimes regret that I'm not getting paid to do so. I could probably buy another motorcycle by now with the commissions. But, alas, I'm not. I just think this place is outstanding and often overlooked... something of a hidden gem in the distance learning universe. Well worth the look!
    • As long as we're on SCJME, there's also its Long-Term Care Management Institute, where one may augment one's masters (or whatever their existing degree is) with a variety of long-term healthcare-related certificates, seminars and continuing education units (CEUs). I'm guessing that I don't have to say much more about it than that.
    There are many, many other fine programs out there. I'm just saying that these two -- or three, depending on how you want to count -- programs are the ones I like to tell people about because they're so interesting and attractive in their own ways and for their own reasons.

    Just chimin' in.
     
  4. Robert_555

    Robert_555 New Member

    Dr. Gulick,

    Congrats on all your accomplishments. I am a graduate of Touro University International's M.S.H.S. program in public health and health education (I hold a double masters from this school). I am happy with their programs and one can earn all they way up to a Ph.d in the disciplines of education, business, and health science. The costs seem to be on par with other online programs. if one wants to take a look at Touro here is there website:
    www.tourou.edu
     
  5. Michael Lloyd

    Michael Lloyd New Member

    Although I did not do a healthcare program at the graduate level, I am working in healthcare with a MBA. I am one of the senior administrators of a large (250 physician) multi-specialty clinic in the Pacific Northwest.

    My wife, however, got her MHA from Chapman University after she retired from the Navy. She was pleased with it, and Chapman has quite a presence on the West Coast military bases.
     
  6. Gregory Gulick DO

    Gregory Gulick DO New Member

    It is great to see that there are members of this discussion forum working in healthcare!

    Steve asked what I was going to do with my MPH. Well, the focus of my MPH was administration. When you graduate from medical school you are really only qualified to do two things: treat disease and participate in clinical research. Sure, there are plenty of physicians that have climbed the ladder to adminsitrative positions without additional training, but it is getting harder to do. So basically, I wanted a degree that combined my interests in public health and administration, so I earned the MPH from ATSU. My hope is that my MPH will open additional doors for me as my medical career progresses. We will see. I am also attempting to land a teaching position in an online institution. I'm a unique candidate, as not many physicians are interested in online education. I have my CV out to a number of institutions, so we will see what happens there.

    Robert, I have some good friends that graduated from the medical school at Touro (San Francisco) and they came out incredibly well trained. Thanks for the link to their website. I like that they offer a PhD in health science that requires a dissertation. How did you like the classes and professors?

    DesElms, thank you for the information on the Sisters of Mercy. I am visiting some of their websites as I type this and they look impressive!
     
  7. HealthLawyer2B

    HealthLawyer2B New Member

    As a Registered Medical Assistant, I stopped work to gain a B.s.H.S to further distinguish myself in my field.

    I personally believe that all MA's should have at least an A.S. or B.S. degree. Just as a nurse has to have an A.S or B.S.N to work, our field should be the same way. Nevertheless, because our field isn't regulated the same way as that of a PA or RN, our work isn't given the professionalism that other healthcare workers recieve.

    I also believe that our pay should be much higher than what we are paid for the amount of work we do. When I started work after MA school, I was offered a position for $6.50/hr. It was sad. I took the job just for the experience. I later was able to find another job which offered me $8.75/hr. The hospitals in my area were replacing the MA's with CNA's. Yet, they were offering $10/hr to start. It is sad.

    At the advice of the physician I worked for, I went back to school to get my B.s.H.S. degree. To say the least, I'll never go back to work as an MA. Nevertheless, my MA skills are important for the work I would like to do. I'm now interested in Clinical Trials and working to become a Medical Science Liaison.

    To the OP and other's interested in healthcare education, there's an online program offered by the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey (UMDNJ). They have a Master's of Health Science degree program, a Ph.D program and a Masters of Science in Health Systems. Through the Certified Medical Representatives Institute CMR Institute, they have agreements with Nova and the University of the Sciences in Philadelphia. The CMR institute is a wonderful program to look into for those interested.
     
  8. David Williams

    David Williams New Member

    Hello Gregg, I’m a healthcare professional although my exposure to DI came about though avocational interests. I completed an online BS in IT about a year back and I just sort of hung around. I’m a long-in-the-tooth and soon to retire, licensed clinical psychologist. I practice at a Midwestern teaching hospital where I’m privileged in neuro- and geropsychology although I define myself as the latter. I work almost exclusively on medical wards and by this I mean I rarely see patients in psychiatry service. A fair amount of my time is spent assessing legal competence and I’m the guy who teaches competence to consent to treatment to the residents. Welcome aboard … and get cracking on writing those wedding vows.
     
  9. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

    Health Care with DL

    I have done several programs using distance learning.
    My initial RN, two nurse practitioner programs, a surgical first Assistant (RNFA), evan a dental assistant program for fun..

    I am currently trying to talk myself out of another advanced practice nursing program.

    Jeremy
     
  10. Mike_UCD

    Mike_UCD New Member

    Hi all.

    I currently work for a medical school and am involved in overseeing clinical research. I'm finishing up my MBA. I'm debating whether to pursue an MPH to build up some medical terminology, etc. but thought there might be a good MPHA program where I can apply some of my MBA credits (?). Anything like that exist out there? I'd appreciate some feedback.
     
  11. Gregory Gulick DO

    Gregory Gulick DO New Member

    What type of courses did you take for your MBA?
     
  12. nasonkd

    nasonkd New Member

    Medical school...

    Hello Doc,

    I am on the quest to become a medical doctor, and eventually specializing in Internal Medicine. Why did you pick that residency? How has that residence rewarded you?

    If you have some pointers for an inspiring health care provider please pass them along.:D
     
  13. Gregory Gulick DO

    Gregory Gulick DO New Member

    Re: Medical school...

    Hey, nasonkd... glad to see someone else is working toward becoming a physician! :)

    You asked why I chose internal medicine. Well, it was the only thing I ever wanted to do. I wanted to have the best primary care training possible, from outpatient medicine to inpatient critical care medicine in the intensive care unit. Internal Medicine is really the only way to go for this type of training. I will basically come out of my residency in 8 months as a very overtained primary care doctor than can function in a variety of settings.

    As far as tips for a future doc... The key to getting in is getting those applications in early. Most schools have a rolling admission process so they start sorting through applications in August or so. You want to be sure that you application is one of the first to arrive. When you get your secondary applications, you should have a 24 hour turn around on those. Every extra day you wait increases the chance that you will loose the seat in the incomming class.

    If you have any questions, check out this thread and post your questions there!
     
  14. Mike_UCD

    Mike_UCD New Member

    Hi Doc... I'm completing a general MBA - all the business basics (e.g., accounting, finance, marketing). I think my business background with exposure to healthcare will be a benefit.
     
  15. Gregory Gulick DO

    Gregory Gulick DO New Member

    Mike, in my MPH I had courses in financial management of public health organizations. They might give you some credit for that.

    Have you ever considered a Masters of Healthcare Administration (MHA)? You will probably get more credit via that route!
     
  16. bullet

    bullet New Member

    Good ole USA

    Steve,

    As far as I know, the "DO" catagory only exists in the USA.
     
  17. Gregory Gulick DO

    Gregory Gulick DO New Member

    Re: Good ole USA

    Actually, this matter is quite confusing. Colleges of Osteopathy that award a Doctor of Osteopathy (DO) or Diplomat in Osteopathy (also DO) degree are located worldwide (except in the United States). These programs, however, teach 100% osteopathic manipulation. So the practitioners are more like a combination of physical therapists and chiropractors.

    However, Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine that award a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine degree exist only in the United States. These programs produce fully licensed physicians capable of practicing any specialty from family medicine to neurosurgery in all 50 states. (Historical note: In the United States, osteopathic medical schools were awarding a Doctor of Osteopathy degree for historical/sentimental reasons through the early 1990's. So you may find a surgeon that has a diploma that reads Doctor of Osteopathy but he does not differ from me, whose diploma reads Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine).

    Interestingly, there is a rumor that a new Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine program may be opening in Israel. This would be the first Osteopathic Medical School (contrasted from a School of Osteopathy) opened outside the United States.

    Did everyone follow this? In short, Osteopathy is the philosophy whereas Osteopathic Medicine is the practice of western medicine in from the framework of the philosophy of osteopathy. So a DO in the UK is great for sore limbs and chronic pain, etc. While a DO in the United States is great for your sore limbs, chronic pain, congestive heart failure, septic shock, and peforming your heart-lung transplant. ;)

    If you understood this then you are ready for a discussion of superstring theory and hidden dimensions. :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2005
  18. Michael Lloyd

    Michael Lloyd New Member

    In the next 12 to 18 months, a new college of osteopathic medicine will be opening in Yakima, Washington. This will be only the second medical school in the state and the class size will be limited to 25 to 30 for the first few years of operation. It will be called the Pacific Northwest University of Health Sciences, and I believe the longer-term goal is to also offer other types of healthcare training. Lord knows we could use more nurses, physical therapists and radiology technicians here. Hey, does anyone want to get together and start a school......
     
  19. Texascot

    Texascot New Member

    Michael, If you're still on the board - I'm currently working in healthcare and I'm in the process of applying for an online MBA. I'd hope to be considered for an administrative fellowship in a hospital/healthcare environemnt on completion of my MBA. Although I have only a short history of working in healthcare, I decided a general MBA would be a better option than an MBA in Healthcare or MHA.

    Does your org run an administrative fellowship program? I'd be interested to hearing your views on the utility of a general MBA compared to a MHA or healthcare focused MBA.
     
  20. Michael Lloyd

    Michael Lloyd New Member

    As a matter of fact I am still here. We are a training site for the local (U of W) health administration programs: MHA, MBA and MPH (adminstrative track). We have a nice young man right now from the MBA program. Most of the fellowship opportunities are in hospitals, so we are a rarity in offering a fellowship in the outpatient ambulatory arena.

    It is my belief that the typical MHA program seems to be particularly on point for hospital administration, although there are many whom would dispute me on this. Many of the classes seem on point for large and more structured healthcare organizations; i.e.: the hospital. It was not all that many years ago that the MHA was known as the masters in hospital administration.

    My wife and I compared her MHA curriculum and my MBA curriculum. Many of the classes are very similar, such as accounting, finance, marketing and the like. My MBA curriculum was more quantitative in the type of classes and her MHA had more 'social sciences' type classes, such as human resources management and healthcare ethics. I think my program did a better job of training in math/statistical/financial analysis than did hers.

    If you are absolutely certain that you will never work outside of healthcare, than a MHA or MBA with healthcare focus is likely a fine choice. When I started my MBA, I was working in a business environment, and thus the MBA was the logical choice. It is my opinion that a MBA perhaps has broader utility than a more narrowly focused adminstrative degree. A degree with a healthcare focus may tend to lock you into healthcare only.

    When it comes to hiring decisions at my clinic, we see the MBA and MHA as essentially interchangeable. Of note, among the senior management team, there are two MHAs, two MBAs, one MEd, one MMM and three MDs.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2005

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