Doctoral RA Counseling program

I don't mind saying that I'm unclear on the distinction between a doctoral program in counseling and a doctoral program in counseling psych. Can you help me with that?
BG14 lists a number of "Counseling" degree programs. The only two US doctoral level programs listed are California Institute of Integral Studies and Argosy U. While I personally think that CIIS is an interesting program I also recognize that its orientation makes it a poor match for some people. There is also a non-US school listed, U of Melbourne, but I don't know how that plays into the whole licensing issue. You'd have to check with the state board in your area.
Jack

(Hey, it's funny how my response to Old Hoosier got stuck up above his original question)

 

I'm not a Capella student (yet) but their PhD in Human Services has a counseling studies concentration. This would probably be advantagous if you do not have a MA/M Ed/MS in Psych. I would assume it is difficult to get a PhD in Psychology with a non standard background in Psych. I did know a Catholic pastor (in the military) who was doing the Capella PhD in HS for this reason. He was not interested in being considered as a psychologist. He had a M Div as his prepatory degree. But he certainly does "counsel" and provides a very human service...

 

I know this has probably been posted a zillion times, however a new development has caused me to consider a doctoral in counseling (not psych or counseling psych) or counselor education. Anybody got references, Capella, Touro, Walden, Union, Southern Christian, others??

Short term residency okay, not concerned about that, keeping cost down would be great, however if I am hired and get ed benefits, I can work around that.

The two brick and motar programs near me are Western Michigan University (where I have been an adjunct for 17 years, and have political concerns about that program) and Wayne State University about 2 1/2 hours away, but possibly doable if they don't require me on campus five days per week.

Thanks in advance,

Tom

 

Jack, in response to your question, I agree that we are splitting hairs, however the American Couseling Association sets up CACREP standards. Since I have a MA in Clinical Psych, I cannot teach in a Counseling program (for school counselors) unless I then either do a third MA in Counseling, followed by a doctorate or a doctoral in counseling or counseling education, not counseling psychology. ACA considers counseling psych to be psychology (governed by the APA) not counseling.

I understand this is a bunch of crud, and my best comparison is to the old guild system when you could be a coppersmith not a silversmith, or goldsmith, etc. This is the same reason I am not allowed to teach in a MSW program because CSWE will not recognize any degree besides a MSW.

I just got off the phone with CACREP prior to my initial post and got the clarification. The only reason I am considering this instead of the program in Interdisciplinary Health Studies I have been considering is that the new counseling program in which I possibly could get hired full-time is about 3-4 miles away.

Welcome other input and reactions.

 

I feel bad for you...

The political confusion comes from so many turf battles and big egoes.

As I try to acertain what you are saying you are looking at your options in counseling that satisfies state licensure.

There are many ways to get there:

1) Do a Social Work Masters etc.

2) Do a CACREP type Masters or Doctorate (for LPC or LMHC).

3) Do a Clinical Psych Doctorate

4) Do a Counseling Psych doctorate

I've looked at just about every distance program out there and for me what clicked was how can I make the most of my Masters in Counseling?

I chose Capella because of the most generous transfer credit policy available (30 Semester credits... I notice that NCU copied them).

Capella lets you go several directions.

1) School of Human Services: you get a Ph.D. in Counseling that lets you satisfy the requirements for Masters level licensure.

2) School of Psychology: you get a Ph.D. in Psychology (has more marketability than H.S. Doctorate in name) with a specialization in either:

a) clinical psych (for licensure as a doc. in Psych for those states that don't require APA accreditation, check if your state does. There are only 10 that require it now.)

b) counseling psych (same as (a) since this is the baby brother of clinical psych) (also lets you qualify for masters level licensure as Prof. counselor if you don't want to go for doctorate level licensure)

c) Family Psych (qualifies you for Marriage Therapist licensure if you plan it right)

d) then there are other Psych specialties if you seek not counselor/psychologist licensure

This is just my two cents. Hope this helps. Finally talk to a counselor at the school.

 

I feel bad for you...

The political confusion comes from so many turf battles and big egoes.

As I try to acertain what you are saying you are looking at your options in counseling that satisfies state licensure.

There are many ways to get there:

1) Do a Social Work Masters etc.

2) Do a CACREP type Masters or Doctorate (for LPC or LMHC).

3) Do a Clinical Psych Doctorate

4) Do a Counseling Psych doctorate

I've looked at just about every distance program out there and for me what clicked was how can I make the most of my Masters in Counseling?

I chose Capella because of the most generous transfer credit policy available (30 Semester credits... I notice that NCU copied them).

Capella lets you go several directions.

1) School of Human Services: you get a Ph.D. in Counseling that lets you satisfy the requirements for Masters level licensure.

2) School of Psychology: you get a Ph.D. in Psychology (has more marketability than H.S. Doctorate in name) with a specialization in either:

a) clinical psych (for licensure as a doc. in Psych for those states that don't require APA accreditation, check if your state does. There are only 10 that require it now.)

b) counseling psych (same as (a) since this is the baby brother of clinical psych) (also lets you qualify for masters level licensure as Prof. counselor if you don't want to go for doctorate level licensure)

c) Family Psych (qualifies you for Marriage Therapist licensure if you plan it right)

d) then there are other Psych specialties if you seek not counselor/psychologist licensure

This is just my two cents. Hope this helps. Finally talk to a counselor at the school.

 

I guess that I have not been clear enough about my goal. I am already licensed and certified in Michigan (MA level in Psych, also certified social worker, and two certifications in addictions). The only reason that I need a counseling doctorate is to teach at the university level in a counseling department.

The doctoral program does not have to be CACREP in nature, just RA. My plan is to move from 85% clinical work versus 15% teaching (now as an adjunct) to the other way around, with a full-time faculty appointment, and doing some counseling on the side. With my current licensure, my reputation in the community after 25 years of delivering services, I will have no problem filling up 10-12 hours of a caseload.

Sorry about the confusion, I do appreciate the sensitivity to the licensure issue.

 

Let me reply to a couple of posters in one e-mail. Other than the programs one person already mentioned, you might want to look at Liberty U. They just began a PhD is Counseling program that is offered through modular sessions. As I recall their MA program in Counseling was fairly secular so I do not think the PhD will be a completely religious based paradigm.

http://www.liberty.edu

Now, I do not know the diff between PhD in Counseling and Counseling Psych. My impression is that the Counseling Psych is going to be a little more respected in terms of academics although secondary to a Clinical Psych degree. I think of Counseling doctorate as being a practioner type doctorate for those whose MA is not necessariy counseling. I looked at U of Sarasota (Argosy) but their ED in Counseling was a repeat of my MA.

Just my 2 cents and impressions.

North

 

Go the Doctorate in Psychology route...

Tom,

If licensure is not an issue then I would go the route of getting a Ph.D. in Psychology with some specialization. Why? Because it looks better and many college/university depts. are not quite enlightened as you and me. When you l look at academic openings the majority in this field (unless in Social Work) ask first for some Doctorate in Psychology or Counselor Education, etc. The Psych. Doc, in my humble opinion has more "looks" for marketability.

Just something to think about.

 

Blackbird,

The woman I talked with at CACREP on Friday stated specifically that because my MA was in psych that the doctorate would have to be in Counseling, if I wanted to teach in a counseling ed dept, which is what the new dept opening up near me is, a counseling dept for K-12. Apparently for a dept to be okayed by CACREP, all faculty either have to possess a MA in Counseling (CACREP) program or a doctorate in counseling (however does not have to be a CACREP program, just RA) She was very emphatic and specific that the degree could not be a psych or counseling psych degree for me at the doctoral level.

Perhaps my frustration is showing, I am locked out of teaching in a local Social Work dept (where the dean and two other profs are personal friends) because although I am a certified social worker (no licensure yet in Michigan) I am ineligible to teach in their department because of similar regulations through CSWE.

In fact, my former supervising psychologist who has a PhD from Princeton was unable to teach in this social work dept for the same reason. Anyone else feel that this whole licensure, credentialling issue is getting way out of hand?

 

Regents University also has a Ph.D. in Counseling program. www.regents.edu.

Duff

 

Sorry, that should be Regent University...www.regent.edu.

Duff

 

Welcome to the Machine...

Tom, welcome to the wacky world of egoes, clubs, turfs, and "penile enhancers!"

 

Welcome to the Machine...

Tom, welcome to the wacky world of egoes, clubs, turfs, and "penile enhancers!"