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  1. #1
    Julie is offline Registered User
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    CEU Masters in Ed degree

    I've been working on my Masters in Ed degree from CEU (I began when it was Monterrey Institute of Graduate Studies). After stumbling onto this website, I'm beginning to wonder if I am actually working towards a legitimate degree that can be used in the US.

    Is CEU a legitimate distance learning University? Are they actually able to grant a Masters in Education by Distance Learning?

    Also, I've read the posts about the fines in Texas and not being granted licensure in Florida. How does one find out this information?????? I've tried searching for it since reading the posts here. I've yet been unable to uncover a link leading me to this information.

  2. #2
    Bill Highsmith is offline Registered User
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    Julie,

    It may be that you are only viewing the last 45 days of postings. At the bottom-right of the list of threads, you can set the time "back to the beginning" and see all the threads. I think people generally posted links to the public information that you are seeking.

    I haven't followed this saga as closely as some others; I'm sure Rich or one of the others will be along soon to answer your questions.

    Bill Highsmith

  3. #3
    Gus Sainz is offline Registered User
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    Angry Re: CEU Masters in Ed degree

    Originally posted by Julie
    I've been working on my Masters in Ed degree from CEU (I began when it was Monterrey Institute of Graduate Studies). After stumbling onto this website, I'm beginning to wonder if I am actually working towards a legitimate degree that can be used in the US.
    How do you know your degree will be issued by the CEU? Who, precisely, would be issuing the degree earned through MIGS (or The Center of University Studies, or whatever they are calling themselves now), has been a matter of much speculation, but a quick visit the CEU’s Web site will tell you that they do not offer a Masters degree in Education .


    Is CEU a legitimate distance learning University? Are they actually able to grant a Masters in Education by Distance Learning?
    No. The CEU is not a legitimate distance learning university in the United States. They are, however, a legitimate residential university in Mexico. The reason they are not a legitimate distance learning institution in the United States is that all of their distance learning programs are offered only through MIGS, and MIGS has been deemed by various state authorities to be illegitimate. As far as the CEU’s ability to grant a Masters degree in Education , no evidence exists to suggest this, except, of course, for MIGS own Web site.


    Also, I've read the posts about the fines in Texas and not being granted licensure in Florida. How does one find out this information?????? I've tried searching for it since reading the posts here. I've yet been unable to uncover a link leading me to this information.
    When I was a child, every time I asked my teachers how to spell a word, they told me to look it up in the dictionary. Decades later, my children inform me that their teachers tell them the same thing. It seems that educators still believe that students should develop research skills and that information should not be spoon-fed. In light of the fact that you profess to be pursuing a Masters degree in Education , I am appalled at your current paucity of research skills (not to mention how little research you conducted before committing yourself to a program).

    In any event (and for the benefit of others, as I believe, that in all probability, you are a shill), here is the information you seek.

    If you had taken a moment to conduct a quick search on Google for the Monterrey Institute of Graduate Studies, the very first page would have provided you with a link to an article that appeared in The Chronicle of Higher Education entitled Texas Fines Distance Learning Institution.

    Contacting the Commission for Independent Education of the Florida Department of Education can corroborate the information concerning Florida licensure. Their Web site is located at http://www.firn.edu/doe/cie/ , and the telephone number of their Consumer Protection Hotline is 1-888-224-6684.

    The CEU’s Web site listing all the graduate degrees they offer is here.

    And, if you would like to verify that your Masters degree would be illegal to use in the State of Oregon, pay a visit to http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccredited.html .
    Last edited by Gus Sainz; 04-09-2002 at 05:32 AM.
    Gus Sainz
    DegreeDiscussion.com

  4. #4
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Re: CEU Masters in Ed degree

    Originally posted by Julie
    I've been working on my Masters in Ed degree from CEU (I began when it was Monterrey Institute of Graduate Studies). After stumbling onto this website, I'm beginning to wonder if I am actually working towards a legitimate degree that can be used in the US.

    While Gus suspects you are a shill, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and try to answer your questions from my perspective.

    I, too, got involved in MIGS, but at a much earlier time, long before the Levicoff lawsuit, the Texas judgment, the Macarena/term paper fiasco, the Florida licensure, etc. What I had to go on is what MIGS put up on their website about being authorized by the CEU to conduct independent study degree programs on their behalf, the information they posted regarding the Secretary of Education 's (state of Nuevo Leon) approval of the CEU's/MIGS' programs, the autonomous charter which should allow the CEU to add whichever degrees it wants, etc. I met then-President of MIGS Armando Arias for breakfast one day in Washington, DC, and was pleased to find he held a respected place in the academic community. Also, the International Handbook of Universities chose to not only list the CEU, but include the "virtual" programs (MIGS) specifically in their listing. The CEU was already listed in AACRAO's PIER guide. I took the rest at face value, much to my regret.

    I did a lot of grunt work for the school for free, much of it never being put to use. (I had been promised free tuition in return for my efforts, but never got past the application phase. I was admitted as a doctoral candidate, but didn't actually do any academic work.) I began to realize this was not a sincere effort at all, and that many of the critics might be right. I tried to hang in there, but the debacle kept growing. Also, it became clear that MIGS wasn't going to staff its program sufficiently to be anything but a diploma mill; they simply didn't have the personnel in place to run even a tiny school. They still don't.

    I dropped the program after it was revealed that not only were they not licensed in Florida, they hadn't even applied. (Their application was subsequently returned as inadequate, then ultimately denied.) Soon afterwards, Dr. Arias quit his involvement with MIGS (under pressure, it would appear, from his employer, the California State University system.)

    I understand the CEU is applying for permission to award the degrees offered through MIGS, but Gus is quite right in saying they have no authority to do so at this time.

    I guess if you get a properly issued degree from the CEU, it might be usable in your situation in the U.S. But if you took your degree to a foreign credentials evaluation service, you might not like what you find. Or you will; no one really knows.

    Is CEU a legitimate distance learning University? Are they actually able to grant a Masters in Education by Distance Learning?


    As I said above, not yet. Ever? No one knows.

    Also, I've read the posts about the fines in Texas and not being granted licensure in Florida. How does one find out this information?????? I've tried searching for it since reading the posts here. I've yet been unable to uncover a link leading me to this information.
    Gus is correct in pointing out that the information is widely available on the internet and at this site.

    The main reason for all of the rancor associated with MIGS is not the legitimacy of the proposed process. (That, too, can be argued, but would likely not take the tenor the MIGS furor assumed.) Rather, it is for the misinformation put out by MIGS, premature or not, about their ability and authority to conduct their programs and award CEU's degrees. They didn't have any authority to do so from the CEU (that anyone can tell); it appears your degree will come from Fort Lauderdale and have nothing to do with the "real" CEU. In the Levicoff lawsuit, they claimed to be operating from Texas and Florida. Texas was a lie used to support their desire to sue Levicoff in Texas, where their attorney and board chairman practices. Florida never licensed them, so they removed (or tried to) all references to their Florida location. But the faxes still go there and the phone rings there as well. Bruce Forman and Ric Feinberg run it from there as well.

    What I came to realize was, even if the final result was a properly issued doctorate from a CEU approved to do so, I couldn't stand dealing with these people anymore. Whether you can stand it is up to you. A search through the threads on this board should give you all you need to know.
    Last edited by Rich Douglas; 04-09-2002 at 06:05 AM.

  5. #5
    levicoff Guest

    Thanks for the entertainment...

    I know it's an esoteric reference - an oldie but goodie, but could Julie be another example of The Jensen Syndrome?* :D

    I don't bop in here very often, but each time I do, I never cease to be amused.


    _________________

    * The question is rhetorical. When it comes to Julie, I'm with Gus. No one can be that dumb. On second thought, yes, they can...

  6. #6
    Bill Huffman is offline Registered User
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    In my opinion, MIGS appears to be an excellent example of what you get when someone with significant personal experience in get rich quick schemes and diploma mills on the one hand and no apparent experience with real college administration on the other hand decides to try and start up a legitimate school. Bottom line you most likely will get a diploma mill. The hill that must be climbed to rich legitimacy is a very slippery slop. A couple of missteps and you end up with a degree mill. The chance of someone with that kind of a back-ground being able to climb that hill just has to be slime. Oops I mean slim, no come to think of it slime works even better. :p

    Excuse me, it's time for another refresher course on the macerana. It's a good thing I know the place to go.

  7. #7
    Leslie is offline Registered User
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    For those who were kind enough to answer...............

    .........this query with a serious tone, I do thank you. To those who chose to be condescending and rude, all I can say is that I am disappointed in the caliber of the "help" you offered.

    Julie was referred here by me from an online teachers ' community for some "expert" advice on her situation. I was asked for advice and since I am not as familiar with the MIGS saga as many of you seem to be, I directed her to degreeinfo, specifically the MIGS discussion forum, for some serious answers to a serious problem.

    While many of you seem to believe that only "dumb" or "stupid" people would be taken in by diploma mills, let me assure you that this is not the case. And on behalf of all who come here with serious questions about prospective distance learning programs as well as those who were unfortunate enough to be taken in by diploma mills, might I suggest that some respondents take a little more care when answering such queries.

    I realize that it is difficult for some of you who have been involved in DL for many years to understand that the entire concept of distance learning is new to many people. The thought that some "institution" would knowingly hand out fraudulent degrees to sincere students is a totally alien concept for honest, hard-working people to grasp. If people are unfamiliar with DL then they are most certainly unfamiliar with diploma mills. And those who are taken in by these diploma mills deserve honest, straight answers rather than rude comments about their "stupidity."

    Frankly I am appalled at the insulting manner in which some of these answers were written. I sincerely regret that I referred Julie to this forum and I surely will think twice before referring anyone else. Respondents should refrain from insulting comments or.....even better.....just "bop" right on back out of here.

    Leslie

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  9. #8
    Dan East is offline Registered User
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    Well said. Leslie! You took the words out of my mouth!

  10. #9
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Re: For those who were kind enough to answer...............

    Originally posted by Leslie
    .........this query with a serious tone, I do thank you. To those who chose to be condescending and rude, all I can say is that I am disappointed in the caliber of the "help" you offered.

    Who was who? For the record, I've been both.

    Julie was referred here by me from an online teachers' community for some "expert" advice on her situation.


    And who are you?

    I realize that it is difficult for some of you who have been involved in DL for many years to understand that the entire concept of distance learning is new to many people. The thought that some "institution" would knowingly hand out fraudulent degrees to sincere students is a totally alien concept for honest, hard-working people to grasp. If people are unfamiliar with DL then they are most certainly unfamiliar with diploma mills. And those who are taken in by these diploma mills deserve honest, straight answers rather than rude comments about their "stupidity."


    Actually, Gus seemed amazed that a person could find MIGS, find this board, but not know anything about either. Then, that person expressed an inability to do even the most simple research. I agree with his message (though not necessarily his tone): how can a person purporting to do a master's in education via distance learning not be able to find these things? As Gus noted, even a simple Google search would have revealed most of what is at issue. And a search of the threads on this board would have revealed a great deal more.

    It is common nettiquette that a new person to a discussion group/board/thread do a little research on their own. One should not expect a warm reception to the shotgun approach of "What about.....?" when it's been asked and answered numerous times before.

    Frankly I am appalled at the insulting manner in which some of these answers were written. I sincerely regret that I referred Julie to this forum and I surely will think twice before referring anyone else. Respondents should refrain from insulting comments or.....even better.....just "bop" right on back out of here.

    Leslie
    Man, this is either one helluva over reaction or a contrivance. Either way, it doesn't add to the issue. And, frankly, it sounds Sheila-esque. (Not that I'm implying it is, of course.)

  11. #10
    Chip is offline Administrator
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    Re: Re: For those who were kind enough to answer...............

    Originally posted by Rich Douglas


    Man, this is either one helluva over reaction or a contrivance. Either way, it doesn't add to the issue. And, frankly, it sounds Sheila-esque. (Not that I'm implying it is, of course.)

    Time for a little moderation, methinks.

    I, as a moderator, was very unhappy with the tone of some of the posters that responded here. We were all ignorant at one time, and some of us may not be terribly computer literate -- but still book-literate and library-literate -- and may not understand how to use this rather complicated piece of software that runs our discussion board.

    As for suspecting that someone is a shill, I would respectfully ask that if anyone suspects a post of being a shill for a program, that said post be reported to the moderators using the "report this post" button. We keep a pretty close watch on such things, and generally have a fairly good idea on what's going on in that regard.

    Additionally, Leslie is a regular contributor to this forum who works in the education field, and has written content for us. The implication that she (as someone with 45 posts, no less) is a pawn in a shill game is very bothersome to me.

    In a way, I begin to see what some have described. If I was a neophyte here, I'm not sure that I'd feel comfortable jumping in if I thought I might get the kind of responses this poster received. And that is absolutely, positively not what DegreeInfo set out to be.

    I would respectfully ask that anyone who has been less than courteous in their response consider how they'd like to be treated as a new contributor, and try and treat others the same way.

    Thanks

  12. #11
    levicoff Guest

    Cool The Big "Bopper" Responds . . .

    Originally posted by Leslie
    .........this query with a serious tone, I do thank you. To those who chose to be condescending and rude, all I can say is that I am disappointed in the caliber of the "help" you offered. BLah blah blah blah blah blah blah . . .
    Respondents should refrain from insulting comments or.....even better.....just "bop" right on back out of here.
    Leslie
    Leslie, would you like a little cheese with your whine?

    All thing considered, I think that people were much nicer to Julie than you think she deserved. Whether you like it or not, it's a tough world out there. The biblical phrase "wicked and perverse generation" comes to mind. It's a world where people try to screw other people in ways that are not pleasurable, and they often take the form of degree mill rip-offs.

    And, while I'm delighted to find out that there is still charming naiveté in the world, when we talk about educators - presumably like you and Julie - we are talking about people who have much responsibility for the personal and professional growth and development of others, regardless of the age of their students. In other words, why should we trust the education of our children - or ourselves - to someone who is dumb enough to fall for the pitch of a degree mill?

    In Julie's case, we are presumably talking about someone who already has a legitimately accredited bachelor's degree. We are talking about someone who, based on her connection with you, appears to be a teacher . Or if she is not, she is hoping to be - and she would not have learned her mistake until she took her MIGS degree and approached a state licensure board with it.

    Here, Leslie, some of us hit hard. But we hit with the truth. And, if one is lucky enough, he or she will be smacked with the truth before spending megabucks and megahours "earning" a degree that will not be worth the paper on which it is printed.

    So, Leslie, ya got a problem with that? Touch noogies. Don't expect any sympathy from me, because I'm the one who dealt with MIGS' lawsuit after saying this kind of stuff. And Gus also got sued himself for telling the type of truth he relayed here.

    The truth ain't pretty. (Oooooops, you're a teacher , so I should watch my grammar. The truth ay not pretty.) But you got it, and so did Julie. And I wish both of you the best. But as for your whining, I'd rather have hard truth than a soft-pedaled rip-off any day.

    If you don't yet know what the truth is, I make the same suggestion to you that was made to Julie: Set your "Display Messages" option back to the beginning and read the wealth of information about MIGS. Even you might learn something.

    But as for me, kiddo, I paid my dues. So excuuuuuuuuse me if I say, once again . . .

    Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! :D

  13. #12
    Leslie is offline Registered User
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    Re: Thanks for the entertainment...

    Originally posted by levicoff
    I know it's an esoteric reference - an oldie but goodie, but could Julie be another example of The Jensen Syndrome?* :D

    I don't bop in here very often, but each time I do, I never cease to be amused.


    _________________

    * The question is rhetorical. When it comes to Julie, I'm with Gus. No one can be that dumb. On second thought, yes, they can...

    So you think some people were a little nicer than she deserved under the circumstances? Would the above-quoted post happen to be one of those?

    "But we hit with the truth. And, if one is lucky enough, he or she will be smacked with the truth before spending megabucks and megahours "earning" a degree that will not be worth the paper on which it is printed."

    "The truth ain't pretty."

    I don't see that you offered any "truth" here.

    "If you don't yet know what the truth is, I make the same suggestion to you that was made to Julie: Set your "Display Messages" option back to the beginning and read the wealth of information about MIGS. Even you might learn something."

    Well, ya know, I did that. And what I saw was a lot of whine with no cheese.

  14. #13
    Leslie is offline Registered User
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    Re: Re: For those who were kind enough to answer...............

    Originally posted by Rich Douglas
    And who are you?
    When I first visited Degreeinfo we corresponded by email a few times and I also checked out a degree mill here in Richmond at your request. You asked about my consulting work and told me about a university in the N. VA area in which I had an interest at one time.

    You have a short memory -- are you quite sure you're up to doctoral study?

  15. #14
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Re: Re: Re: For those who were kind enough to answer...............

    Originally posted by Leslie


    When I first visited Degreeinfo we corresponded by email a few times and I also checked out a degree mill here in Richmond at your request. You asked about my consulting work and told me about a university in the N. VA area in which I had an interest at one time.

    You have a short memory -- are you quite sure you're up to doctoral study?
    Thank you for the insult. I'm sure Chip's plea for moderation sat well with you.

    I "meet" a lot of people here and in other places, most of them (like you) are two-dimensional--I don't really get to know them. Not their (your) fault, that's just the way it is. You've posted 45 or so times; I've posted more than 1,500. Couple that with more than 500 at about.com and who-knows-how-many on a.e.d., and you tend to stop trying to keep track of everyone. Sorry, Julie.

    Not that it matters; I didn't say you are Sheila. I said you sounded like her, and even noted that I didn't even imply you are her. Sorry if you took it that way. My mistake.

    As for my readiness for doctoral study, are you sure you are in a position to draw such conclusions on so little evidence? You whine about how your friend was treated--a person I treated a lot more kindly than others--then offer that little gem? A cheap, little insult that only reflects upon its owner.

    I hope, other than the Sheila-esque comment, you find my observations regarding netiquette to be accurate.

    Now, let me get back to my Alzheimer's recovery class and my (D-UH!) dissertayshun....

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  17. #15
    Leslie is offline Registered User
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: For those who were kind enough to answer...............

    My apologies, Rich -- that remark was not an insult but rather was intended with a smattering of humor which was apparently lost in the text medium. Perhaps I misunderstood your intended remarks about who am I followed later by the "sheila" comment and your comment about "whining." That certainly sounded like an insult to me. People who come here with serious problems re: diploma mills are not "whiners" and should not be treated as such.

    And yes your response re: MIGS was accurate.

    I regularly correspond with hundreds of people I don't know on listservs, online communities and via email-- not to mention online students in many classes that change every semester or quarter. It is important, for a lot of reasons, that I do not forget people with whom I have corresponded.

    I remembered you :) And for what it's worth -- value your DL knowledge and opinions although at times the sarcasm does not sit well.

    Leslie

  18. #16
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: For those who were kind enough to answer...............

    Originally posted by Leslie

    I remembered you :) And for what it's worth -- value your DL knowledge and opinions although at times the sarcasm does not sit well.

    Leslie
    Yes, sarcasm in this somewhat limited and stilted environment can result in unintended and unfortunate results. Guilty as charged;) .

    As for tracking everyone with whom I have an exchange, the overhead would not be worth saving myself from the occasional "Don't you remember...?" And the ones with whom I correspond regularly, I tend to remember. Like my wife, what's-her-name. And my children, whom I've renamed "Boy" and "Girl" for obvious reasons. And....oh, there goes that sarcasm thing again. But not directed at you but, rather, at me.

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