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  1. #1
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    Talking Doctoral degree without Master

    Hello Everyone!

    I current have a bachelor's degree in education from a local state university. I have two kids, work, my aging mother, and more work to be completed at home after my job. I've been looking for a Ph.D program in Education for sometime, and I've discovered MIGS.

    I have gone through the opinions here in this board regarding MIGS. I also went to the Oregon Student Assistance URL and it indicates that MIGS is not approved by the Mexican government in rewarding doctoral degrees.

    Can the seasoned members help me? I also visited the ever helpful degree.net URL. I realized the expert column there is written by Richard Douglas who was a research assitant there before. Can anyone please indicate MIGS's academic rigor and legitimacy?

    Much Appreciated.
    -----------------
    Mary J. Dutton

  2. #2
    PSalmon is offline Registered User
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    Yes, a very nice article by Rich at http://www.degree.net/news/guestcolumn01.html .

    I suggest you look at the book by Bear, Bear, Head, and Nixon ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...142722-9878541 ) for a path forward to your PhD in Education . Three of the authors are denizens of this forum.


  3. #3
    Bill Highsmith is offline Registered User
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    The Union Institute permits direct entry into a doctoral program under some circumstances. I'm not sure what circumstances those are (the brochure was not clear), but I would assume that substantial work experience in the field would be one of the criteria. Steve Levicoff, who lately only appears here from time to time, is a graduate and may shed some light on it.

    There has been a lot of discussion about the school here, so do a search. It is pretty expensive and has some short but flexible residencies if that is an issue. The URL is: www.tui.edu.

  4. #4
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Mary J. Dutton:
    Hello Everyone!

    I current have a bachelor's degree in education from a local state university. I have two kids, work, my aging mother, and more work to be completed at home after my job. I've been looking for a Ph.D program in Education for sometime, and I've discovered MIGS.

    I have gone through the opinions here in this board regarding MIGS. I also went to the Oregon Student Assistance URL and it indicates that MIGS is not approved by the Mexican government in rewarding doctoral degrees.

    Can the seasoned members help me? I also visited the ever helpful degree.net URL. I realized the expert column there is written by Richard Douglas who was a research assitant there before. Can anyone please indicate MIGS's academic rigor and legitimacy?

    Much Appreciated.
    -----------------
    Mary J. Dutton

    The rigors of a MIGS degree are unknown. I was disappointed about their programs on several fronts, all of which have been discussed here (and, as you note, you've read).

    It is also unknown whether the process will (a) result in a properly issued degree comparable to those issued by other Mexican universities and (b) whether the degree issued will be of use to you. You are the best arbiter of that.

    Rich Douglas

  5. #5
    T. Nichols is offline Registered User
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    Given the bias regarding distance education within the field of education , I doubt that any school-board would recognize a combination Master's / Doctorate degree.

    Ted

    (who still hopes MIGS works out)

  6. #6
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by T. Nichols:
    Given the bias regarding distance education within the field of education , I doubt that any school-board would recognize a combination Master's / Doctorate degree.

    Ted

    (who still hopes MIGS works out)
    I don't understand this assertion. It is quite common among traditional doctoral programs to admit bachelor's-holding graduates, then award the master's along the way towards the doctorate. In fact, the master's is sometimes awarded as a "consolation prize" for the failed doctoral candidate. In the U.K., students are sometimes admitted as candidates for the M.Phil, only to advance to doctoral candidacy after a year or so of satisfactory work/research.

    Of course, MIGS is hardly traditional.

    Rich Douglas


  7. #7
    Kristin Evenson Hirst is offline Registered User
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    Mary, what's your goal? What do you hope to accomplish with a Ph.D. in Education that you can't accomplish without it?

    If you want to teach in a U.S. institution, I'd be skeptical of MIGS's value. If you want to move a step or two up the salary ladder, find out if your school system would recognize the MIGS degree. (My guess is they'd be likely to prefer a US institution with recognized accreditation.)

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    Kristin Evenson Hirst
    DistanceLearn.About.com
    Kristin Evenson Hirst

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  9. #8
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Lightbulb

    Posted by Mary J. Dutton:
    Doctoral degree without Master?
    If you have a bachelors degree, then you can enroll in the Doctor of Education program at the University of Sarasota. It is 60 credits long. However, while enroute to the doctorate, a masters is obtained as a default.
    MA, Franciscan University of Steubenville, Theology: in-progress online
    Info: http://www.franciscan.edu/academics/graduate-programs/
    Favorite scriptures: Rev. 11:15 & Luke 24:45

    LET'S DO THIS! https://www.facebook.com/TrumpForPresident2020/

  10. #9
    Caballero Lacaye is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Rich Douglas:
    I don't understand this assertion. It is quite common among traditional doctoral programs to admit bachelor's-holding graduates, then award the master's along the way towards the doctorate. In fact, the master's is sometimes awarded as a "consolation prize" for the failed doctoral candidate. In the U.K., students are sometimes admitted as candidates for the M.Phil, only to advance to doctoral candidacy after a year or so of satisfactory work/research.

    Of course, MIGS is hardly traditional.

    Rich Douglas


    Dear Rich,

    As you are saying, Rich, in the examples that you are mentioning, you are awarded the master's while studying for the Ph.D. However, it is my understanding that there are some cases that you are not awarded the master's, thus ending up with just a bachelor's (most likely an Honours Bachelor's) and a Ph.D.

    Sincerely yours,


    Karlos Alberto Lacaye
    caballerolacaye@newsmail.org

  11. #10
    Andy Borchers is offline Registered User
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    Rich and all - I may be off, but I believe that the accreditation take on this is that a doctoral degree should entail at least 90 credit hours beyond the bachelors. For folks with a masters in hand, the doctoral program may only take 60 hours (as in several DBA programs).

    At least that was the take when a school I worked with recently received permission to grant Doctor of Management and Doctor of Engineering degrees.

    Thanks - Andy

    Originally posted by Rich Douglas:
    It is quite common among traditional doctoral programs to admit bachelor's-holding graduates, then award the master's along the way towards the doctorate.

    Rich Douglas



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    Andy Borchers, DBA
    NSU (1996)
    Andy Borchers, DBA
    NSU (1996)

  12. #11
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Andy Borchers:
    Rich and all - I may be off, but I believe that the accreditation take on this is that a doctoral degree should entail at least 90 credit hours beyond the bachelors. For folks with a masters in hand, the doctoral program may only take 60 hours (as in several DBA programs).

    At least that was the take when a school I worked with recently received permission to grant Doctor of Management and Doctor of Engineering degrees.

    Thanks - Andy



    This is what I implied. We see many examples where the bachelor's-holding candidate is admitted, but must take a longer course to the doctorate.

    Rich Douglas

  13. #12
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    Originally posted by Andy Borchers:
    a doctoral degree should entail at least 90 credit hours beyond the bachelors. For folks with a masters in hand, the doctoral program may only take 60 hours (as in several DBA programs).
    This is one reason the Doctor of Ministry degree requires only 36 hours, i.e., it is based on the prerequisite of a Master of Divinity (or its equivalent) degree which is approximately 90 hours. Some schools (e.g., Luther Rice Seminary) have an extended D.Min. program, which allows one to enter with only a MS, MA, MRE, etc., but requires an additional 30 hours of graduate level study, for a total of 66. This allows one to make up the deficit.

    Russell

  14. #13
    Bill Highsmith is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Rich Douglas:
    This is what I implied. We see many examples where the bachelor's-holding candidate is admitted, but must take a longer course to the doctorate.

    Rich Douglas
    Here are two RA examples of what you are suggesting:

    Florida Tech (FIT): combined MS/PsyD requiring 4 years (residential only). This is shortened compared to separate degree programs.

    Nova Southeastern : MA/EdD or MA/PhD in Education (DL w/ short residencies)

  15. #14
    Caballero Lacaye is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Rich Douglas:
    This is what I implied. We see many examples where the bachelor's-holding candidate is admitted, but must take a longer course to the doctorate.

    Rich Douglas

    Hello, readers!

    Of course, if you enter directly to a research Ph.D. with just an Honours Bachelor's, you are effectively eliminating the Master's without adding or reducing any work load for the Ph.D. And this applies to residential research Ph.D.'s as well.

    I cannot talk about the specific case of MIGS, but I know some universities in Latin America that have awarded the "doctorado" to people with just a "licenciatura", that is, without the "maestría". I suspect that these universities follow the research-based model.

    Cordially yours,


    Karlos Alberto Lacaye
    caballerolacaye@newsmail.org


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  17. #15
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Originally posted by Caballero Lacaye:
    I cannot talk about the specific case of MIGS, but I know some universities in Latin America that have awarded the "doctorado" to people with just a "licenciatura", that is, without the "maestría".
    Karlos, I remember you telling us the doctorado was the equivalent of the doctorate. Is the maestria equivalent to the Master's degree and the licenciatura to the Bachelor's degree?


    Bruce
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  18. #16
    Caballero Lacaye is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Bruce:
    Karlos, I remember you telling us the doctorado was the equivalent of the doctorate. Is the maestria equivalent to the Master's degree and the licenciatura to the Bachelor's degree?


    Bruce

    Hello, Bruce!

    Thank you for your question.

    To be as precise as possible, the "doctorado" is equivalent to a doctorate and a "maestría" is equivalent to a master's; notwithstanding, although a "licenciatura" is more or less equivalent to a bachelor's, they are not exaclty the same (though for comparison and graduate purposes they are the same). This is because a "licentura" can last as little as three years or as much as seven years. For example, in some cases, a "licenciatura" in a technical field can last three years while a licenciatura, for instance, in law, can last up to seven years. Let emphasize that this is not standard, though. In the same country, some universities might offer a licenciatura in a subject for, let's say, four years while other universities in the same country offer the same licenciatura in the same subject for, let's say, six years. Why the difference? Because some universities require more classes in general education and/or electives than others.

    Kindest regards,


    Karlos Alberto Lacaye
    caballerolacaye@newsmail.org

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