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  1. #1
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    Question MIGS: The Sequel

    For over a year it seemed that MIGS was one of the hottest topic around, at least on AED and DegreeInfo. Even to the point of MIGS getting its own forum on DegreeInfo.

    There is usually a sequel to every story, so what is it here? What has become of MIGS?

    Russell

  2. #2
    tcnixon is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Russell A. Morris:
    For over a year it seemed that MIGS was one of the hottest topic around, at least on AED and DegreeInfo. Even to the point of MIGS getting its own forum on DegreeInfo.

    There is usually a sequel to every story, so what is it here? What has become of MIGS?

    Russell
    Like many senior citizens, MIGS has retired to scenic property in lovely Monterrey, Mexico, where it sips Pina Coladas and bets on the Jai Alai games.

    Tom Nixon

    P.S. In theory, MIGS (now re-named) is operating in Mexico. In practice, it appears that it is still operating from Florida and, according to others here, doing so illegally.


    tn
    Author, Complete Guide to Online High Schools (2012)
    http://BestOnlineHighSchools.com

  3. #3
    Bill Highsmith is offline Registered User
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    Considering the frequency of MIGS posts, lately, perhaps it can be brought back into the General Discussion board.

  4. #4
    irat is offline Registered User
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    I think the essential questions remain the same. If Centro del Estudios Universiarios meets GAAP, then doesn't the Center for University Graduate Studies, also meet GAAP. One would assume that CUGS will now appear on a CEU organization chart. When someone calls CEU, most workers ought to know that CUGS is an internal entity.
    The issues of whether CUGS has good faculty is an issue of quality. The issue of whether CUGS has administrators who make it sound like a degree mill is again, an issue of quality. The issue of whether one would be ill advised to virtually go there, is again issue of quality.
    Can anyone answer the central questions for the centro. Does CEU meet GAAP? and is CUGS really a unit of CEU?
    irat

  5. #5
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by irat:
    I think the essential questions remain the same. If Centro del Estudios Universiarios meets GAAP, then doesn't the Center for University Graduate Studies, also meet GAAP. One would assume that CUGS will now appear on a CEU organization chart. When someone calls CEU, most workers ought to know that CUGS is an internal entity.
    The issues of whether CUGS has good faculty is an issue of quality. The issue of whether CUGS has administrators who make it sound like a degree mill is again, an issue of quality. The issue of whether one would be ill advised to virtually go there, is again issue of quality.
    Can anyone answer the central questions for the centro. Does CEU meet GAAP? and is CUGS really a unit of CEU?
    irat
    The CEU meets GAAP. It is listed in both the IHU and the World Education Series by PIER (on behalf of AACRAO). Schools listed in either of these tend to be acceptable to admissions officers.

    MIGS is most certainly not an integral part of the CEU. It is a separate entitity, with separate ownership. The owners have a contract with the CEU to offer programs leading to CEU degrees.

    Assuming you really can get a CEU degree via MIGS, then the product is the same. But the process is certainly not, and is not well thought of (as evidenced by many people's posts, not just mine). But do you end up with a degree from the CEU, or just one signed by Arias and Forman? MIGS will tell you the former. I hope they're right.

    Rich Douglas

  6. #6
    tcnixon is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Rich Douglas:
    But do you end up with a degree from the CEU, or just one signed by Arias and Forman? MIGS will tell you the former. I hope they're right.

    Rich Douglas
    Isn't that the question, though? If it is a degree signed by Arias and Forman, what is it worth?

    It will be interesting to see what happens when they finally have their first graduate. Anyone know a timetable for when that august event should happen?


    Tom Nixon
    Author, Complete Guide to Online High Schools (2012)
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  7. #7
    Chip is offline Administrator
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    Originally posted by tcnixon:
    Isn't that the question, though? If it is a degree signed by Arias and Forman, what is it worth?


    Tom Nixon
    Probably about as much as a degree from any other unaccredited school that has claimed to move from one country to another, while reportedly still illegally maintaining its operations in the original country, changed it's webpage 500 times, always immediately after someone here pointed something out, and advertised its services on a website featuring "get rich quick" schemes and a link to term papers for sale.

    In other words, not much.

    I find it particularly interesting that when someone who was fluent in Spanish called the CEU several months ago, his report was that no one at CEU seemed to know anything at all about the MIGS program (and this guy spoke to a bunch of folks there in different departments). When someone was finally located who did know something about it, all he said was that CEU had nothing at all to do with the MIGS program, that it was simply a contractual arrangement. Of course, they now have letters and pretty pictures and a mailbox rental address that says otherwise, but I suspect that we're talking window dressing, not substantive change.

    And the "rental accreditation" scam is what I suspected all along.

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  9. #8
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Chip:
    And the "rental accreditation" scam is what I suspected all along.
    But it didn't have to be this way. In my second (of two) breakfast meetings with Arias, it was clear to him that MIGS represented an opportunity to do several things. First, he wanted to introduce greater across-the-border networking for the CEU and institutions in the U.S. He certainly is the guy for that. Second, he saw an opportunity to implement education technologies into the graduate program. This really wasn't happening, however; MIGS remains very low-tech. Third, he saw an opportunity to develop programs with MIGS that could be used to upgrade the qualifications of faculty members at the CEU and other Mexican universities. I saw limited benefit for CEU faculty. (Too many getting their degrees at their own school wasn't a good idea, I thought.) But building cooperative programs at other schools could have been productive. (This is/was in the works, BTW.)

    Unfortunately, Arias doesn't run things, Forman does. Arias makes no decisions commensurate with his title and position. He is head of state to Forman's head of government. Sadly, Forman is incapable of running such a program, and the only managerial support the program receives is in the form of an illegal Florida operation, a mail-forwarding service in Mexico, horrendous promotion links to dubious web sites, a home site that tells lies, etc. But take all that away (or, better yet, fix it), and you still have problems. You've got a very suspect Assessment of Prior Learning process, no administrative functions to support students and their learning, and no learning resources (notice that their web site is all about promotion, but there is nothing for students to use). Finally, their academic processes are superficial at best. I only know about two students in detail, me and one other person, both admitted "ABD." They admitted me on the basis of my Union work. Fine, but they did it before they saw and evaluated my prior doctoral work. Once they asked me to come on board to assist them, I was an ABD. I still provided them all the documentation, and included it all in my learning contract, but it was clear that it just didn't matter. In fact, Forman told me I had too much in my learning contract and to cut it down.

    The other student I'm familiar with was admitted ABD despite not having done doctoral work at an accredited school. This person did have two doctorates from unaccredited schools connected to one of the owners of MIGS. I don't know if those were used as the basis for this person's ABD status.

    Lame, really lame.

    Rich Douglas

  10. #9
    Bill Huffman is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Rich Douglas:
    They admitted me on the basis of my Union work. Fine, but they did it before they saw and evaluated my prior doctoral work.
    For a DL school an expensive task is ensuring that the students have learned the necessary subjects. IMHO, one of the biggest differences between a degree mill and a real school is that the degree mill trims back on this expensive aspect of running a real school.

  11. #10
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Bill Huffman:
    For a DL school an expensive task is ensuring that the students have learned the necessary subjects. IMHO, one of the biggest differences between a degree mill and a real school is that the degree mill trims back on this expensive aspect of running a real school.
    Yeah. The only one incurring any expense was me. I paid them a hundred bucks for the APL.

    Rich Douglas

  12. #11
    Timmy Ade is offline Registered User
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    Chip and Rich,
    as someone already pointed out,all said in your respective postings still rest on the issue of quality, and not illegality. My questions to you fellows now are: (1) if and when we witness a Migs's degree issued and signed by CEU officials as opposed to Arias and Forman, Will you Guys then go easy on what has now turned to"ANTI MIGS CRUSADE" ? And (2) better yet will you now offer some respect/appology (however pettite) to Migs considering your previous brutal attcks on them ?
    Thanks,

    Timmy Ade who is not a Migs scholar.
    TF

  13. #12
    Bill Huffman is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Timmy Ade:
    Chip and Rich,
    I'm not Chip or Rich, but I must say that I have not said anything that I feel I need to apologize for. MIGS is apparently operating illegally but let's even ignore that. I do not hold to the notion that an institution must be operating illegally before I can call it a degree mill. From my view, MIGS has behaved so like a degree mill I feel it's reasonable to label them such. If it walks and quakes like a duck then I'm calling it a duck.

    To me MIGS looks like a degree mill that possibly has a thicker veneer of legitimacy than some other degree mills. (If they're accepting candidates as ABD for PhD's without any apparent evaluation what else can you call them?)

    I don't think that Chip or Rich have even called MIGS a degree mill. What have they said that is untrue? What has been said about MIGS that has turned out to even be inaccurate? What has been said that an apology is in order? Especially just because some student finally gets a diploma from el MIGS with CEU printed at the top, what kind of apology would you then envision? All that has been said regarding that is that it is currently unclear that CEU will be at the top of the diploma. The Oregon ODA hasn't been able to verify this. Are we all supposed to just shrug and accept it on faith? (I guess I could if I really wanted to but I sure can't blame Rich for not wanting to.)

  14. #13
    Peter French is offline member
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    Originally posted by Rich Douglas:
    But it didn't have to be this way...

    The other student I'm familiar with was admitted ABD despite not having done doctoral work at an accredited school. This person did have two doctorates from unaccredited schools connected to one of the owners of MIGS. I don't know if those were used as the basis for this person's ABD status.

    Lame, really lame.

    Rich Douglas
    You used the word 'lame' Rich ....!

    My 2 'doctorates' as you call them are of equivelent value to John Bear's Harvard whatever it is, are not used and I have made that abundantly clear to everyone who WANTS to understand that, which obviously excludes you, but that isn't exactly a change of attitude is it?

    I have (1) a Masters degree that quite considerably exceeds the requirements for a US MEd , which incidentally in my second and 'lesser' Masters; (2) I have done considerable and established POST MEd study and research which has been established by my Univerisity here, and has been part of professional and Government/Regulatory submissions here in the area of Higher Education Administration. They incidentally want me to do my PhD with them, but accept my choice and have offered me seminar and doctoral colloquia facilities, as well as mentorship, supervision, library and research support. This is after having looked at CEU who incidentally approved my APL. My APL was processed on directly substantiated evidence from my official transcript - NOT a photocopy, and backed by the course outlines in the University Calendar, and other independendently provided information.

    Rich, leave you hangups out of this, and try and regain some objectivity. Most of us are tired of your 'problems' so quitely back off the topic. It will save your face being redder than it will need to be a little later when you have reason to realise that your decision may not have been the wisest, or at least was made on some pretty serious misconceptions.

    It just may give another dimension to your favourite word 'Lame' :-)

    Take a tip from a friend a little older, a little wiser, and little more intelligent if I may be as bold as to say that.

    I have enough work to do completing my PhD and now being called in to overhaul another HE college nationally that has problems at the top and with quality delivery and assessment - so don't expect me to get into a converstaion, argument, pissing contest or whatever you are looking for.

    Anyone who wants to talk to me about CEU can do so at pjfrench@celestial.com.au

    Peter French
    M.Acc . M.Ed. B.Ed
    Univerisity of New England , Australia


  15. #14
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Timmy Ade:
    Chip and Rich,
    as someone already pointed out,all said in your respective postings still rest on the issue of quality, and not illegality. My questions to you fellows now are: (1) if and when we witness a Migs's degree issued and signed by CEU officials as opposed to Arias and Forman, Will you Guys then go easy on what has now turned to"ANTI MIGS CRUSADE" ?

    This is not an "anti-MIGS crusade." It is a discussion of events regarding MIGS that have occurred over the past 18 months. John Bear offered the analogy of dealing with a horrible car salesman; you put up with him to get the car you want. In this scenario, the "car" is the degree and MIGS is the salesman. That's the best case. The worst case is an improperly issued degree. (CEU signatures aren't sufficient. The certficate from the Secretary of Education in Nuevo Leon is also required.)

    And (2) better yet will you now offer some respect/appology (however pettite) to Migs considering your previous brutal attcks on them ?

    Apologize for what? Being treated like hell? Being told that a number of processes and activities were going to take place and not have them take place? Being enrolled in a school that has no legal right to operate? Being embarrassed to be associated with one PR nightmare after another? Okay. I'm sorry. Boy, am I ever sorry!
    [/B]

    Thanks,


    Timmy Ade who is not a Migs scholar.[/B]
    You're welcome.

    Seriously, I really appreciate your concern for the well-being of MIGS and how I or others might damage it. But not to worry. No greater wounds could be brought than those that have already been self-inflicted.

    Rich Douglas

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  17. #15
    Peter French is offline member
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    Originally posted by Rich Douglas:
    But it didn't have to be this way...

    The other student I'm familiar with ... did have two doctorates from unaccredited schools connected to one of the owners of MIGS.

    Lame, really lame.

    Rich Douglas
    You are really a laugh a minute as well as being the highest contributor to the group ...truly reminds me of someone ... but your logic is really funny, should help with your PhD.

    The logic comes from early discharge from the defence forces, or spending too long with the screws? Never mind Rich one day you'll learn to live with those frustrations that continually beset you.

    Linking the 'other student' and ' the owner of MIGS', and the 'owner of MIGS' and those 'universities' in like deducting that as you and your wife both use the can, you must be transgender :-))

    Rich, dear Rich, at least you keep the NG alive - by design or defualt? ...really it doesn't matter I suppose ...

    Peter


  18. #16
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Peter French:
    You are really a laugh a minute as well as being the highest contributor to the group ...truly reminds me of someone ... but your logic is really funny, should help with your PhD.

    The logic comes from early discharge from the defence forces, or spending too long with the screws? Never mind Rich one day you'll learn to live with those frustrations that continually beset you.

    Linking the 'other student' and ' the owner of MIGS', and the 'owner of MIGS' and those 'universities' in like deducting that as you and your wife both use the can, you must be transgender :-))

    Rich, dear Rich, at least you keep the NG alive - by design or defualt? ...really it doesn't matter I suppose ...

    Peter


    Thank you for that scintillating violation of the TOS.

    Rich Douglas

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