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  1. #1
    tcnixon is offline Registered User
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    MIGS back on the list

    Apparently Alan Contreras of the Oregon Office of Degree Authorization has gotten tired of waiting for a response from Mexico to his request for additional information, because they're back on the list:
    http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccredited.html


    [Note: This message has been edited by tcnixon]
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  2. #2
    Kristin Evenson Hirst is offline Registered User
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    Somehow the link was truncated -- here it is:
    http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccredited.html

    The note for MIGS says:
    *Monterrey Institute for Graduate Studies. ODA has been unable to confirm that this entity is operating legally in the United States or that it has actual authority from the Mexican government to issue degrees. Oregon will not accept MIGS degrees until satisfactory evidence of its legal status in the U.S. and its degree-granting authority is obtained. We requested such evidence from the Mexican government in April, 2001 and have had no response.
    ------------------
    Kristin Evenson Hirst
    DistanceLearn.About.com
    Kristin Evenson Hirst

  3. #3
    Bill Huffman is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Kristin Evenson Hirst:
    Tom and Kristin, thank you very much for the information.

    I wonder if CEU is getting cold feet after finding out more details about who they were getting in bed with. As I understand how degree granting authority works in most other countries, I doubt that the Danzigs would have been able to get permission to start up a school in those other countries, not with their past.

    It's the best protection provided against degree mills in those other countries. They are more careful about who they give degree granting authority to.

  4. #4
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Bill Huffman:
    I wonder if CEU is getting cold feet after finding out more details about who they were getting in bed with. As I understand how degree granting authority works in most other countries, I doubt that the Danzigs would have been able to get permission to start up a school in those other countries, not with their past.

    Actually, this recent development didn't have anything to do with the CEU and whether or not they're getting "cold feet." (I don't know one way or another if they are, but what Oregon did doesn't have anything to do with it). It has to do with the fact that Alan Contreras at the ODA can't get any information out of the Secretary of Education 's office regarding the relationship between MIGS and the CEU, despite the fact that he made his request in both English and Spanish. When I spoke to him about this in early May, he was clear that he didn't seek--nor did he want--information from either MIGS or the CEU. He wanted it (rightly so in my opinion) from an independent, authoritative source outside the school. He didn't get it, so he changed the way the school is listed.

    One niggling point: The ODA has banned degrees issued from MIGS. MIGS doesn't issue degrees. Contreras was clear that this wasn't about the CEU itself--which he knows is properly established and recognized. So what's to ban? Perhaps not the degrees, but banning MIGS from enrolling students living in Oregon? That would make sense, in light of the lack of information.

    Rich Douglas

  5. #5
    Bill Huffman is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Rich Douglas:
    Actually, this recent development didn't have anything to do with the CEU
    A subtle but very important difference, thank you much. For example, going that route you would expect it to take a bit longer to get the information back.

    MIGS is a very interesting situation as Gus (IIRC) more eloquently posted earlier.

    Thanks again,

    P.S. Thanks also for using niggle, it just happens to be a favorite word of mine.

  6. #6
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Bill Huffman:
    A subtle but very important difference, thank you much. For example, going that route you would expect it to take a bit longer to get the information back.

    Sadly, I believe you are correct. And no matter how much I chide them on this, we hear nothing. An open and candid dialogue with someone from MIGS would serve to clear up a lot of things. Of course, running and promoting it correctly would do so as well.

    Rich Douglas

  7. #7
    Peter French is offline member
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    Originally posted by Rich Douglas:
    Sadly, I believe you are correct. And no matter how much I chide them on this, we hear nothing. An open and candid dialogue with someone from MIGS would serve to clear up a lot of things. Of course, running and promoting it correctly would do so as well.

    Rich Douglas
    It is very easy to come the the opinion that the head honchos of MIGS don't excell in Educational Administration. I haven't been able to find acceptable process in any stage of my enrolment or ABD.

    Presumably this will not be acceptable to CEU despite the offer of high level IT support/facilitation



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    pjfrench@celestial.com.au

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  9. #8
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Peter French:
    It is very easy to come the the opinion that the head honchos of MIGS don't excell in Educational Administration. I haven't been able to find acceptable process in any stage of my enrolment or ABD.

    Presumably this will not be acceptable to CEU despite the offer of high level IT support/facilitation

    Interestingly, I expressed my concerns over the whole MIGS matter to Dr. Arias recently. He re-stated that the CEU has the authority to add these programs, and that MIGS is included in the CEU's approval. He'll be traveling to Mexico next week, and expects to bring back further information supporting this. (But will MIGS offer this--or anything else--for everyone's scrutiny?)

    The biggest problem hasn't been in the MIGS-CEU arrangement. Schools all over the world have arranged for other operations to conduct instruction on their behalf. The problems have always been in presentation and execution. MIGS is the most poorly presented school in the history of DL. They've remained conspicuously silent when matters revolving around their legitimacy to conduct degree programs on behalf of the CEU have been brought into question. (Or, for that matter, the CEU's authority to award these degrees.) Also, their operations leave much to be desired. There simply isn't anyone home. That was fine a year ago when the idea first got off the ground. It isn't anymore. It is very clear that no one intends to staff and administrate these programs. No one. How can anyone run a school with no full-time staff? Not to mention an abject lack of experience regarding distance education .

    Assuming the approval to award the CEU degrees is properly established, Bear's analogy still applies: taking a degree from MIGS is like buying a car you really want from a horrible salesman, knowing you'll get the car you want and never see him again. The only way MIGS can change that is by putting people in place that will run things properly and actively. Fat chance.

    Rich Douglas

  10. #9
    Bill Huffman is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Rich Douglas:
    Assuming the approval to award the CEU degrees is properly established, Bear's analogy still applies: taking a degree from MIGS is like buying a car you really want from a horrible salesman, knowing you'll get the car you want and never see him again.
    Rich, the "administration" of MIGS strikes me as spiteful and incompetent, I apologize for the audacity, but I'm concerned that these creeps get you in their cross-hairs.

  11. #10
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Bill Huffman:
    Rich, the "administration" of MIGS strikes me as spiteful and incompetent, I apologize for the audacity, but I'm concerned that these creeps get you in their cross-hairs.
    Oh, don't worry about me. They'll either get it together or I'll move on. There really isn't any in-between. I got involved because I thought it was a terrific opportunity to get in on the ground floor while finishing my doctorate. If, instead of the ground floor I find myself free-falling down an elevator shaft, I have plenty of other options.

    I've made quite a few critical comments about MIGS over the past year, especially as it became clear that there was little capital investment (capital including people) into the process. In most business ventures, it takes some up-front investment. You cannot sell one donut until you have the shop leased, equipment obtained, licenses in place, advertising , signage, and the fat guy who shows up at 2:00 AM to fry the donuts while dragging on a Marlboro. You can't wait to have a bunch of customers handing you cash to get this stuff. The first guy through the door wants a donut. He's not going to give you cash and hope you get enough to start making them. And if you don't deliver to those first few customers, the rest simply will not follow.

    The first student at MIGS wants a quality education and a useful degree. The degree may or may not be useful; we'll see about that. But he educational system--which includes a program, staff, administration, faculty, etc., has to be in place. That takes an up-front investment.

    Now, to move away from the donut example, let's look at, say Amway. In a multi-level marketing outfit, your goal is to get other people to sell for you. If you get 20 people, and only one is at all successful, you'll be successful, too. The 19 who failed will have sold a few things, and they'll have taken all the risk. You can sit back and wait for these people to succeed or fail, it doesn't cost you a dime. If they succeed, you get lots of cash so you can build your business. If they fail, you go out and get some more suckers.

    Now, which model do you think is in effect here?

    Rich Douglas


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