+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Michael Smith is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    8

    Question Current MIGS Students

    After reviewing all comments regarding MIGS, I am still interested in their program. However, are their any people on this message board that are currently enrolled at MIGS. If so, how far along are you, what do you think of it so far, any recommendations? Please, respond with serious input only. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    11,356

    Post

    Originally posted by Michael Smith:
    After reviewing all comments regarding MIGS, I am still interested in their program. However, are their any people on this message board that are currently enrolled at MIGS. If so, how far along are you, what do you think of it so far, any recommendations? Please, respond with serious input only. Thanks.
    I am. Feel free to e-mail me at rcdouglas@erols.com .

    Rich Douglas

  3. #3
    Gus Sainz is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    1,738

    Post

    Originally posted by Michael Smith:
    After reviewing all comments regarding MIGS, I am still interested in their program. However, are their any people on this message board that are currently enrolled at MIGS. If so, how far along are you, what do you think of it so far, any recommendations? Please, respond with serious input only. Thanks.
    Gus Sainz
    DegreeDiscussion.com

  4. #4
    Gus Sainz is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    1,738

    Post

    Originally posted by Michael Smith:
    After reviewing all comments regarding MIGS, I am still interested in their program. However, are their any people on this message board that are currently enrolled at MIGS. If so, how far along are you, what do you think of it so far, any recommendations? Please, respond with serious input only. Thanks.
    Michael:

    To my knowledge the only person in this forum claiming to be a student of el MIGS is Rich Douglas. I would hope he would answer your questions publicly, in this forum, so that we might all benefit from his knowledge and insight.

    Additionally, I would suggest you post your inquiries directly to the Student Discussion Forum in el MIGS’s Student Lounge at:
    http://www.degree.com/cgi-bin/studen...conf=DCConfID1

    The posts are revealing as to the caliber of el MIGS’s students, their knowledge of the program and how far along they are in the process.

    Being that he is also an employee of el MIGS (and the moderator of the Q&A Forum in el MIGS’s Student Lounge), Rich’s comments must frequently be put in the proper perspective. However, I believe he was sincere when he recently posted the following comment:

    ”Second, it is irresponsible to recommend a MIGS/CEU program to anyone at this point. That's why I never do it.”

    I hope this helps,

    Gus Sainz
    Gus Sainz
    DegreeDiscussion.com

  5. #5
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    11,356

    Post

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Gus Sainz:
    Michael:

    To my knowledge the only person in this forum claiming to be a student of el MIGS is Rich Douglas. I would hope he would answer your questions publicly, in this forum, so that we might all benefit from his knowledge and insight.


    This should, of course, be adjusted for the sarcasm it drips.

    I've already made my point of view clear on this board. There is no reason to re-hash the same points; nothing new is known.


    Additionally, I would suggest you post your inquiries directly to the Student Discussion Forum in el MIGS’s Student Lounge at:
    http://www.degree.com/cgi-bin/students/dcboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID4&conf=DCC onfID1

    The posts are revealing as to the caliber of el MIGS’s students, their knowledge of the program and how far along they are in the process.

    Being that he is also an employee of el MIGS

    Of course, I'm not an "employee of MIGS. I've done all my work pro bono and have not received any renumertion, either in cash or in kind. That includes no tuition, expenses reimbursement, fee waivers, nada. The only services I've drawn from MIGS is my admission and Assessment of Prior Learning, both of which I paid for.


    (and the moderator of the Q&A Forum in el MIGS’s Student Lounge)

    On which I've answered exactly zero inquiries.

    , Rich’s comments must frequently be put in the proper perspective.

    Which is certainly not available from this source.

    However, I believe he was sincere when he recently posted the following comment:

    "Second, it is irresponsible to recommend a MIGS/CEU program to anyone at this point. That's why I never do it."


    Indeed, I was. Of course, that doesn't mean a person should not enroll in MIGS, just that it is premature in their process to send someone their way. I notice the reason WHY I don't ever recommend people enroll in MIGS was conveniently left off. It is because, while the program seems to be set up to earn a properly issued credential, no one has done it yet. A wait-and-see approach is probably most prudent.

    QUOTE]

    Rich Douglas

  6. #6
    Gus Sainz is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    1,738

    Post

    Rich:

    I will not bore everyone by quoting from the previous message, but I do have a few comments.

    First of all, Rich, I do not believe I have ever attacked you personally. I have, however, opposed your viewpoints, disagreed with your actions, and taken you to task for your lack of a logical basis for your arguments. In my previous comments I was not being sarcastic. I do not know of anyone else claiming to be a MIGS student on this forum. I you know of anyone else please share this with us. Secondly, I sincerely believe that you do, indeed, have a lot of insight and knowledge concerning MIGS. In fact, as I have repeatedly stated, one of the things that bothers me the most about you, is that you feign ignorance about the most basic information: the kind of information that any rational person would’ve wanted to know before selecting a school and committing him or herself to a doctoral program. You consistently claim a lack of knowledge of the simplest of facts concerning MIGS, only to subsequently regale us with information that only the most privileged of insiders would know.

    If as you state, ” I've already made my point of view clear on this board. There is no reason to re-hash the same points; nothing new is known.”, why the need to give your viewpoints and recommendations privately, instead of posting them here?

    Rich, this is the second post of yours in which you attempt to impugn my credibility. This is the first time, however, that you refute my contention that you are receiving remuneration from MIGS. A quick search of the AED archives brought up your post dated 12/05/2000.


    Oh, I'm right here. What, exactly, are my motivations? I'm someone who came on board as a student very early in the process, and, therefore, I enjoy commenting on the program I'm pursuing. As I've said all along, my relationship with MIGS/CEU is one of student/research assistant and school. I'm working to establish and improve their offerings (when they really open the doors; I understand they have fewer than two dozen students currently) in return for a break on tuition. This is the EXACT same arrangement I considered with Capella earlier this year; that didn't work out, this did. Everything I've had to say about the program has been related to the process and value of a degree from CEU. Period. You can argue all day about that, but what, exactly, are my "motivations"?

    Rich Douglas



    Did I misread this? Are you, or aren’t you, getting a break on tuition? (I know you have a MBA , and would know that a tuition break would constitute remuneration.) Were you being truthful then, or now? Why are you only denying it now, although I have repeatedly brought this up in the past?

    Moreover, am I to understand that Capella was your first choice, and you only did not attend a RA U.S. school because they did not give you said break on tuition? Or was it because it is their policy not to grant extensive credit for life experience or previous doctoral work, as most every other credible institution of higher learning?
    I am well aware of the fact that the Q&A Forum in el MIGS’s Student Lounge (of which you are the moderator) has received zero inquiries. I am also aware that the vast majorities of inquiries on the other forums appear to be from individuals who are either not yet students, are somewhat mired in the process, or appear to be shills. What do you think are the implications of this?
    Rich, I do not claim to be the individual that provides the proper perspective to your comments or posts; I simply stated that it was important to do so. Your incessant backpedaling and subterfuge, however, renders this an arduous task.

    Lastly, I did not “conveniently” (who’s being sarcastic, now?) leave out the reason why you do not recommend people enroll in el MIGS as you claim. I believe your statement was elegant in its simplicity: you do not recommend people enroll in MIGS because as you said, it would be irresponsible.

    Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz
    DegreeDiscussion.com

  7. #7
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    11,356

    Post

    Originally posted by Gus Sainz:
    First of all, Rich, I do not believe I have ever attacked you personally.

    Gus Sainz

    But you do.

    As the moderators of this forum have frequently noted when the tone of the thread turns like this: take it to private e-mail. You're more than welcome to write me at rcdouglas@erols.com. But you won't.

    Rich Douglas

    P.S.: There is one point Gus makes that is worthy of comment. Yes, I do have a deal with MIGS. But I haven't taken advantage of it to this point. Whether or not I do is for the future, not the present. I have worked with them for a year gratis. But my contributions have been minimal. Logic requires one to take the simple answer over the complex. Gus' fantasies are not well-grounded, and I'm tired of responding to the same issues over and over again. It's obvious that he won't take anything I say, so what's the point. E-mail me, if you want.


  8. Advertisement

  9. #8
    Gus Sainz is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    1,738

    Post

    Originally posted by Rich Douglas:
    But you do.

    As the moderators of this forum have frequently noted when the tone of the thread turns like this: take it to private e-mail. You're more than welcome to write me at rcdouglas@erols.com. But you won't.

    Rich Douglas
    What??? You impugn my credibility, yet when you own posts are offered as evidence that it is you who is being less than candid, you appeal to the moderators. The last appeal relegated the issues surrounding el MIGS to a separate forum you sarcastically referred to as the “Dead Zone.” When will you understand this is not about you, Rich? The reason el MIGS has attracted so much attention and discussion is that it touches upon every single facet of distance education : accreditation, globalization, GAAP, ways of circumventing GAAP, ethics, privatization, ownership, degree acceptance, etc. You name a current issue concerning distance education , and there is a corresponding aspect of MIGS that relates directly to it. This is not coincidence; the owners of MIGS studied extensively all of the issues, and designed their program to address them. Additionally, they hired an individual knowledgeable about distance education as a consultant (you, with the understanding that you would bring along Dr. Bear), to point out where they may have missed a thing or two.

    It is a sign of desperation on your part, that you appeal to the moderators of this forum that these posts be deleted or otherwise dealt with. You suggest I write you personally. This is the first time you provide me with your personal email, yet in the same breath you accuse me of not emailing you personally. What is it, precisely, that you cannot discuss in a public forum? Why must you issue it the form of a challenge by stating But you won't.? What kind of childish banality is this? Is this some kind of test of machismo? Did you learn this at el MIGS? ¡Ay caramba!

    P.S.: There is one point Gus makes that is worthy of comment. Yes, I do have a deal with MIGS. But I haven't taken advantage of it to this point. Whether or not I do is for the future, not the present. I have worked with them for a year gratis. But my contributions have been minimal. Logic requires one to take the simple answer over the complex. Gus' fantasies are not well-grounded, and I'm tired of responding to the same issues over and over again. It's obvious that he won't take anything I say, so what's the point. E-mail me, if you want.

    [/QUOTE]

    What??? You now admit you have a deal? (If you can cease your backpedaling for a moment, you owe me an apology.) Whether you chose to take advantage of it at this point is irrelevant. You are on record denying any such deal exists. What little credibility you had left has been sacrificed at the altar of attempting to extract some credibility for MIGS out of thin air. And, if you truly have a deal for tuition break, why haven’t you taken advantage of it?
    This simply doesn’t make sense, particularly in light of the fact that it was a major, if not the major criterion in choosing el MIGS. To not take advantage of a legal and ethical economic benefit defies good business sense. What, precisely, is your rationale?

    As to fantasies, I am sorry to disappoint you, Rich; you must have me confused with another close acquaintance. None of my fantasies (and by the way, well-grounded fantasies is an oxymoron) have anything at all to do with you. (Fifteen years of faithful marital bliss and enviable family relationships attest to the fact that all my fantasies involve my wife and a wonderful future for my children.) I can back each and every one of my statements (concerning MIGS or anything else) with corroborating evidence. And, more germane to the topic of credibility, I have yet been forced to backpedal, reiterate, or reinterpret any statement I have made. Not that I do not make mistakes; I am, however, very quick to admit them and apologize when I do.

    Also, for the sake of clarity, logic does not dictate one must take the simple answer over the complex. Logic dictates that one must accept the most logical, truthful answer over all others regardless of whether they are simple or complex.

    Moreover, you respond (over and over again), not to the questions posed to you, not to the questions to which we assume any intelligent individual would have the answers if he had committed to a particular course of action, not to the questions to which the answer might diminish the value of the degree and deal you have made, but only to those questions to which the answer enhances the value of the degree you hope to attain. When you, like Pontius Pilate washed your hands and told me to contact the CEU and MIGS, I did. When I posted the responses to my questions, you ignored my findings (perhaps because you had previous knowledge and embarrassment of what I would discover) and began casting doubts upon my credibility.

    It’s not that I won’t take anything you say, Rich. It’s the echoing of the standard MIGS talking points that disturbs me. It’s the way you say you do not have any knowledge of the most basic facts concerning el MIGS’s programs; yet you have rolled the dice and inextricably tied your future with theirs. It is the way that the answers to the questions I have posed are elementary and obvious that anyone considering a higher education program would want, indeed require, this information, yet you have stated that you do not know, that the information was unavailable or irrelevant. A few simple phone calls on my part yielded most of the answers and then some. Yet when I posted the responses I received from the owners of MIGS, you proceeded to impugn my credibility. Sure, attack the messenger. This is not logical, noble, or even anything resembling respectable, yet it is consistent with MIGS’s own practices. Perhaps you both are a better match than I realized.

    Your research skills have to be much better than you have demonstrated by your posts on MIGS, or surely Dr. Bear (as much as he relishes non-traditional, unaccredited, trend-setting educational ventures) would not have associated himself with you. The only answer lies in the fact that now, having made your bed; you must lie in it (no pun intended). You have consistently withheld information that you deemed controversial or detrimental to MIGS (thereby negatively impacting the general public), and systematically leaked out any facts, however tangential, that you felt would bolster el MIGS’s credibility and the acceptability of the degree you hope to attain; all this, solely for personal gain. In a single post of a few paragraphs, Dr. Bear shed more light on el MIGS, his relationship, your relationship, the program, the oversight, how far you were along in the program, what was involved, what you still had to accomplish, etc. than you have in more than 100 posts.

    Rich, please understand, I do not have a dog in this fight. I do not attend a competing institution, nor do I do have a personal vendetta against you, or anyone else associated with MIGS; neither you, nor they, have done me any personal harm. My judgment is not clouded by any affiliations or conflicts of interests; in fact, I sympathize with your plight. It reminds me of a quote from “Don Quixote” by Miguel de Cervantes: “There can be no doubt, Sancho,” he said, “that this is going to be a great and perilous adventure in which it will be necessary to display all my strength and valor.” However, in order to truly understand all of the implications, one must read the entire novel, preferably in Spanish.

    Rich, I am simply a concerned citizen. Dr. Bear has lead me to believe that your research is important to all of us involved with distance education , and I believe him. To those seeking a terminal degree, acceptance by business and academia is more important than any registrars’ opinion of what is acceptable for transfer credit or admission. However, your choice of an institution whose degree is, at best, controversial and of dubious acceptance renders any research on the acceptance of degrees, suspect and clouded by conflicts of interest. In light of your employment by a unconventional institution, as well as your numerous posts in defense of a degree that is, by no means, universally accepted, your objectivity is compromised, and your conclusions subject to distrust. This is not good.

    Gus Sainz

    P.S. I’ll be glad to email you personally if you assure me you will make every effort to answer my questions truthfully; otherwise it is simply an exercise in futility. To date, you have answered less than 2% of my questions (the sentences with the question mark “?”at the end). Pick a few at random and email me at sainz@wsu.edu. Although I have nothing to hide, and have nothing to say that cannot be discussed in a public forum for the benefit of the general public, I will take you up on your challenge and respond. I do, however, reserve the right to post any of your responses on this, or any other forum.
    Gus Sainz
    DegreeDiscussion.com

  10. #9
    tcnixon is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    1,592

    Post

    Originally posted by Gus Sainz:
    What??? You now admit you have a deal? (If you can cease your of your responses on this, or any other forum.
    Since this is quickly turning into an argument without end, it's probably time to take it to e-mail where you two can freely call each other names, should you so choose.

    Everything that has been said, has already been said ad nauseum, ad infinitum, etc., etc. and so on.

    Thanks for keeping this a nice place to play.


    Tom Nixon
    Author, Complete Guide to Online High Schools (2012)
    http://BestOnlineHighSchools.com

  11. #10
    H. Piper is offline member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Orlando, MA Canada
    Posts
    144

    Wink

    Oh, Tom. Always there with the heavy hand.

    I doubt I'm the only one who finds the Douglas/Sainz debates fascinating. And when have these two ever called each other names? I must have missed that...

    Not to mention some of the information in these latest posts is news to me. Even if it wasn't, it's interesting to see this from Rich:

    "WHY I don't ever recommend people enroll in MIGS was conveniently left off. It is because, while the program seems to be set up to earn a properly issued credential, no one has done it yet."

    MIGS is not operating legally in the United States, as far as I know. It would seem to me that a more responsible (and correct) position might be:

    "WHY I don't ever recommend people enroll in MIGS is...because MIGS has yet to operate within the laws of the United States. Maybe when they are no longer an illegal entity, I will."

    My understanding is that even some blatant degree mills operate legally - Universal Life Church, for example. So to start the long process of crawling out of the mill gutter MIGS should probably show proof of some basic legal standing in the US. (If that's even in the business plan...I mean, who knows? Maybe the mill route is more appealing for certain factions within the MIGSterious design .)

    My vote: Let 'em rock, Tom. It's better than watching TV.

  12. #11
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    11,356

    Post

    Originally posted by H. Piper:
    MIGS is not operating legally in the United States, as far as I know. It would seem to me that a more responsible (and correct) position might be:

    "WHY I don't ever recommend people enroll in MIGS is...because MIGS has yet to operate within the laws of the United States. Maybe when they are no longer an illegal entity, I will."


    This is absolutely correct. Based upon my conversations with MIGS and Florida officials, MIGS is required to register with the state, who would approve them to operate as an administrative office of the CEU. They would not, however, have to go through the licensure process. As I've said before, the fact that MIGS did not do this prior to conducting any operations was wrong and amateurish. Illegal? Sure, but the state's not upset about it. They've just required MIGS to apply (which, I repeat, they should have done at the start).

    Even upon Florida's approval, I still won't recommend someone enroll in a MIGS program until they get their act together. That isn't the same as whether or not a CEU degree will have merit, whether or not the MIGS-operated programs are substantive, etc. Those issues, as Tom Head so rightly noted, have been beat in the dirt. Let's have a few intrepid people graduate and let's see the outcomes. We'll have a better idea then.

    Rich Douglas, who traded "hellos," but nothing else, with Gus via e-mail.

  13. #12
    Bill Huffman is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Posts
    4,394

    Post

    Originally posted by Gus Sainz:
    My view is that Rich is sometimes overly sensitive and feels under "attack" when frequently no real attack was made. At these times his favorite counter-attack seems to be to get personal and at the same time accuse the person of getting personal. I think that he is truely trying to be both fair and open. Of course he does have a much bigger stake in the success of MIGS than anyone else here so I think his reactions are understandable from that point of view.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts




1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197