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  1. #1
    bpreachers is offline Registered User
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    Is it true that the DOD is planning to pull TA from all For-profit institutions

    A friend of mine who is a NCC (Navy Career Counselor Chief) shot me an email on facebook after noticing a post I made on my current school page (AMU). It is pasted below along with my response to him. Now, I have been searching around on the net since this message trying to find anything that specifically casts APEI (company that owns AMU/APU) in a negative light regarding the DOD's coming crack down on for profit colleges and have yet to find anything. Due to this I figured I would come on and ask on here. 1 Has anyone heard any info about the DOD pulling the TA abilities from all For-profit colleges and 2 Has anyone heard any information pertaining directly to my school? I am 6 classes away from finishing my Undergrad with them and would hate to have the rug pulled out from under me at the end. Thanks.

    <<<<His email to me>>>>
    o Your taking classes at AMU? Did you know congress and department of defense had a big investigation done last year and many of the for profit schools authorized to use TA and other "military" money (VA) may be getting canx come Jan? That is if they don't update their contracts and go by the rules set place which many of them are not and AMU/APU is dam near on top of the list. Was put out by Navy college over here. Not saying they are horrible but something to ponder. Also at some insider job fair stuff with many of companies AMU/APU along with many others are not highly rated and when submitting job applications people with their degrees are throw out the door from even being looked at. One of the biggest issues is yes they are SOCNAV but students tend to start classes and never sign one and when they look to transfer to the next SOCNAV school won't accept them. There is a high percentage of military students who are fast talked into not signing them. When I get to work I'll hit up navy college and find out some more info for you on the public for profit schools. Just cause they have reps at Navy Colleges don't mean jack. It's all about putting your money in the best spot for the BEST education. Oh and the free books actually is paying payed with TA which is not authorized. They fit it in by incorporating it into class fees.
    <<<<My response>>>>
    AMU is only a stepping stone for me as it is. I am using them to complete my undergrad so I can move on to my Masters program at Troy. Based off of the new rules put out by the DOD on for profits the main requirement was the same tuition for military as civilian. AMU has that, no special incentives for military to go there. I did sign a SOCNAV agreement. They also just got their Regional Accreditation updated after a long audit of all of their programs. I am not too worried about job applications not accepting my AMU undergrad degree as my 1 year intensive Masters of Science in Human Resources Management with Troy will be the big ticket on a resume(as I see it). I also think a lot of people that get turned away only have AMU as their education background. I had an Associates Degrees prior to joining the Navy in Industrial Graphics Design with a minor in Management. TA hasn't come back on me about the books thing yet which I was worried about when I first started with them last year. However, the bulk I have completed via my Post 911 just like I will with my Masters, 16 credits just wasn't enough as I want to be done quick enough to guarantee being 75% finished with my Masters when my current contract ends (just in case PTS forces me out).

    Another specific concern was the price gouging that many for profits participate in (such as UoP ) however AMU has some of the lowest tuition in the public/private sector (including both non-profit and for-profit private and public RA colleges, this excludes State Schools). At 250 per credit hour on the undergrad level and 325 at the Master's level they are deffinately competitive. They also carry a number of secondary accreditations such as ACBSP (tier 2 Busness accreditation) which is no easy task to achieve (most for profit colleges carry the tier 3 accreditation of IACBE).

    I have no questions of the education I am recieving here personally though I do realize that the for-profit status turns off some employers and schools (which is why I will pursue the Masters at a State Run public school). AMU/APU has just been lumped in with the bad rep and guerrilla enrollment tactics of schools like UoP , Ashworth , Ashford , and UMUC.

    Ill look forward to reading whatever information you have, especially anything that specifically names AMU as I have read a number of the stories produced regarding the DOD's crack down on For-profit colleges and have yet to see anything mentioning AMU/APU or its parent company APEI (American Public Education Inc.).

    Thanks bro.
    US Navy Retired

    AA-Computer Graphics Design Aiken Technical College '04'

    BA-HRM American Military University '12'

    MS-Human Resources Management Troy '13'

    Current position: Plant HR Generalist

  2. #2
    bpreachers is offline Registered User
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    Thanks for any insight and/or updates yall have.
    US Navy Retired

    AA-Computer Graphics Design Aiken Technical College '04'

    BA-HRM American Military University '12'

    MS-Human Resources Management Troy '13'

    Current position: Plant HR Generalist

  3. #3
    airtorn is offline Moderator
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    This is RUMINT and needs to be squashed.

  4. #4
    truckie270 is offline Registered User
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    Not to undermine the credibility of the OP's friend, but I personally would have a hard time taking advice from an enlisted career counselor on civilian employment matters. The free books comment is incorrect - all undergraduate students at APUS get free books whether they are TA, federal financial aid, or out-of-pocket.

    While I cannot speak to the OP's question, I do know for a fact that students registering for classes and then never logging in has been a SIGNIFICANT issue at all of the schools I teach for. This is an issue for both military students receiving TA and non-military students receiving financial aid. The issue really began to get some emphasis with the recent rules proposed for FPs regarding gainful employment, disclosure on employment prospects, etc. that we saw earlier this year.

    At APUS, policies were changed July 1 to include a graded assignment meeting specific parameters to be automatically graded by the learning management system at the end of the first week. If students have not completed that requirement they are automatically dropped from the course. I believe that their TA/ financial aid/tuition is held until that requirement has been met and then applied to their balance, but I am not 100% on that. I know that processing TA for students who never signed into the class has become a tremendous administrative headache. Similar requirements are in the works for the other schools I work at - a mixture of private NPs and FPs.

    I would not worry about APUS - enrollments are growing through the roof, the school is gaining several professional program accreditation, and several other good things on the horizon.
    Last edited by truckie270; 08-21-2011 at 03:42 PM.
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  5. #5
    bpreachers is offline Registered User
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    I am not worried about what he was saying regarding civilian employment. What is worrying me is the comments he made about the military pulling TA eligibility from for-profit colleges. That is what is bothering me.
    US Navy Retired

    AA-Computer Graphics Design Aiken Technical College '04'

    BA-HRM American Military University '12'

    MS-Human Resources Management Troy '13'

    Current position: Plant HR Generalist

  6. #6
    Randell1234 is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpreachers View Post
    I am not worried about what he was saying regarding civilian employment. What is worrying me is the comments he made about the military pulling TA eligibility from for-profit colleges. That is what is bothering me.
    Wouldn't that be un-American? How could the US Government be anti-capitalism? Isn't this painting everyone with the same brush without regard for common sense? This would seem one step closer to socialism to.

  7. #7
    bpreachers is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randell1234 View Post
    Wouldn't that be un-American? How could the US Government be anti-capitalism? Isn't this painting everyone with the same brush without regard for common sense? This would seem one step closer to socialism to.
    Well no one has accused the military of common sense before so yeah.
    US Navy Retired

    AA-Computer Graphics Design Aiken Technical College '04'

    BA-HRM American Military University '12'

    MS-Human Resources Management Troy '13'

    Current position: Plant HR Generalist

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  9. #8
    truckie270 is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpreachers View Post
    I am not worried about what he was saying regarding civilian employment. What is worrying me is the comments he made about the military pulling TA eligibility from for-profit colleges. That is what is bothering me.
    I understand. I would have never have thought military pensions would be on the table, so anything is possible. I mentioned on a thread around here a couple of months ago that I have a friend who works at the Pentagon who related to me that ALL TA was going to be examined more carefully in light of proposed funding reductions to the DOD.

    One of the things that I know for a fact is giving the military and schools fits is the large number of students who collect the TA benefit, but never finish courses or do not pass with a high enough grade to keep from having to take the course over. Honestly., I could see the system being revised to a tuition reimbursement system so that the military pays the service member for the course after the student has passed it. The only downside would be that military students would have to front fund the first semester. Given the degree to which schools bend over to get those TA dollars, I sure some arrangement could be made to reduce the impact of that first semester of courses (rebate, reduced rate, tack it on at the end of the program, interest free payment plans, etc).

    This would eliminate so many of the headaches associated with processing and managing enrollments of TA students. It would also be more of an deterrent for those who were not serious and an incentive for those who were.
    Last edited by truckie270; 08-22-2011 at 11:46 AM.
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  10. #9
    Randell1234 is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by truckie270 View Post
    I understand. I would have never have thought military pensions would be on the table, so anything is possible. I mentioned on a thread around here a couple of months ago that I have a friend who works at the Pentagon who related to me that ALL TA was going to be examined more carefully in light of proposed funding reductions to the DOD.

    One of the things that I know for a fact is giving the military and schools fits is the large number of students who collect the TA benefit, but never finish courses or do not pass with a high enough grade to keep from having to take the course over. Honestly., I could see the system being revised to a tuition reimbursement system so that the military pays the service member for the course after the student has passed it. The only downside would be that military students would have to front fund the first semester. Given the degree to which schools bend over to get those TA dollars, I sure some arrangement could be made to reduce the impact of that first semester of courses (rebate, reduced rate, tack it on at the end of the program, interest free payment plans, etc).

    This would eliminate so many of the headaches associated with processing and managing enrollments of TA students. It would also be more of an deterrent for those who were not serious and an incentive for those who were.
    This would make sense just like any company TA program. I would even say it is a fair idea to come up with an "average" cost of undergrad and graduate class and that is what the service member could get in TA. It will serve to help educate people to know what the average cost should/could be for a degree program and reduce the overall expenses. This way the for-profits are not targeted. It is all fair based on cost.

  11. #10
    Ted Heiks is offline Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by airtorn View Post
    This is RUMINT and needs to be squashed.
    What is RUMINT?
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  12. #11
    truckie270 is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Heiks View Post
    What is RUMINT?
    Rumor Intelligence
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  13. #12
    edowave is offline Registered User
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    Last I heard, standard DoD TA was capped at $250 a credit, regardless if the school was for or non-profit. Some agencies seem to go above and beyond this. Perhaps what your friend was referring to only pertained to Navy people?
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  14. #13
    03310151 is offline Registered User
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    Ted, like truckie posted:

    RUMINT = Rumor Intelligence
    HUMINT = Human Intelligence
    SIGINT = Signals Intelligence
    OSINT = Open Source Intelligence

    etc, etc.

    Anyway, if this was the case it would be all over the services. Believe me this would be a huge deal. The DoD has discussed a cut in TA funding (25% if I remember correctly) just like they are discussing changes to retirement. There have been no changes, at least not in the Air Force and Army.
    Last edited by 03310151; 08-25-2011 at 08:30 AM.
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  15. #14
    peacfulchaos2001 is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by truckie270 View Post

    Honestly., I could see the system being revised to a tuition reimbursement system so that the military pays the service member for the course after the student has passed it. The only downside would be that military students would have to front fund the first semester. Given the degree to which schools bend over to get those TA dollars, I sure some arrangement could be made to reduce the impact of that first semester of courses (rebate, reduced rate, tack it on at the end of the program, interest free payment plans, etc).

    This would eliminate so many of the headaches associated with processing and managing enrollments of TA students. It would also be more of an deterrent for those who were not serious and an incentive for those who were.
    That is the confusing part because it's already like that in the Air Force Reserves. I spent four years on active duty and became used to the "if you fail/drop then you have to pay the money." When I arrived at my reserve unit it was "if you pass then we will give you the money." To my knowledge, that was the status quo. It works "perfectly." I think it actually works better because most people work harder when their out-of-pocket money is being paid up front. I'm not sure why it hasn't transitioned to the active duty side.
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  17. #15
    lawmann is offline Registered User
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    The only requirement that the DoD has for paying tuition is that the school be regionally accreditied. "For-Profit" or "Not-For-Profit" makes no difference.
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