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  1. #17
    Glor1295 is offline Registered User
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    I agree with Dr. Rene.

    The following comments are based on my association with the Army:

    The question that must be asked is whether he wants to be a soldier or an engineer . If he wants to be a soldier, then enlist with OCS in his contract and he should eventually be an officer. That could be in any field, as OCS is "needs of the army." He will have a minimum of three years active time and five in the reserves or inactive reserves, for a total of 8 years. Everyone joins for 8 years even if only some is active time. He will then get to do all the soldier stuff like go to the field, sleep in the mud, and occasionally get blown up by IEDs. Make sure he is prepared to not see his wife very often, as he will probably spend much of his time in the field training or overseas. In my first five years in the Army, I spent 3 years overseas (Korea and Iraq), about 14 months training in the field or tdy somewhere, and about 10 months in the states. Also make sure his wife is prepared for all of this because divorce tends to be more expensive than tuition.

    The other option is to be a DoD civilian. This route pays almost as well, gives nearly the same benefits, and ensures that he will be a licensed engineer working in his field. Also, he can go into the reserves if he decides he cannot live without a little more Afghanistan in his life.

    I don't mean to come off as negative, it is just that these are some of the issues that need to be brought up when considering the military. In my experience, the military isn't a job, it is a calling. The people who love it are the ones that have wanted to do it their entire lives, the people who felt like something is missing in their lives without being in the military. Most everyone else is just doing it because they are waiting for the retirement or because they cannot get out without having to start over at entry level.

    Hope my comments are useful and best wishes with whichever route he takes!



    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Rene View Post
    Ted,

    Here is another perspective:

    If your niece's boyfriend is serious about civil engineering (CE) and wants to enter the CE career field, and also wants to be part of the Department of Defense, he may want to consider entering the DoD civilian service (CE career field is 0810. See below link). DoD civil service CE professionals do serious civil engineering . They work in the Army, Corps of Engineers , Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps. They are serious about CE and many pursue graduate degrees in CE and professional certification/license as a Professional Engineer . The tuition assistance applies to civilian employees as well. In fact the civil service has specific career program opportunities for graduate school and other training.

    On the other hand, when one joins the military, the needs of the military always come first, regardless of your educational background (except for the professional fields like medicine, law, chaplain, …). In the military, he may not be in the CE career field, and even if he is, he may not be performing CE duties—remember-- the needs of the military comes first (as it should be)---he may be working non-CE duties, especially in this current environment.

    Of course, if he is not serious about a CE career, and just wants to join the military, and would accept any job/career in the military, my comments are irrelevant.

    http://www.opm.gov/qualifications/st...s0800/0810.htm

    http://jobsearch.godefense.newjobs.c...=0&SUBMIT1.y=0

  2. #18
    Ted Heiks is offline Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maniac Craniac View Post
    I submit the motion to add a Sticky to this thread.
    You know, that does sound like a good idea. This thread has quickly grown into something that can be of benefit to far more than just the Tedmeister and his future nephew-in-law.

    MODS!
    Theo the Educated Derelict
    BA, History/Political Science, Western State College of Colorado, 1984
    MBA, Entrepreneurship, City University of Seattle, 1992
    MBA, Marketing, City University of Seattle, 1993

    Politics is made from two words: "poly" meaning "many" and "ticks" meaning "blood-sucking insects."

  3. #19
    Maniac Craniac Guest
    I'm quite frankly shocked at the lack of Millitary education stickys. It deserves its own board, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Heiks View Post
    You know, that does sound like a good idea. This thread has quickly grown into something that can be of benefit to far more than just the Tedmeister and his future nephew-in-law.

    MODS!

  4. #20
    Ted Heiks is offline Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maniac Craniac View Post
    I'm quite frankly shocked at the lack of Millitary education stickys. It deserves its own board, IMO.
    Just out of curiosity, Maniac Craniac, were you ever in the military? I'm betting the mods will probably give this thing its own sticky because (a) Bruce Almighty our fearless leader was in the military and his war was Iraq 1 and (b) Randell1234 was in the military and his war was Iraq 2. Thusly, with two Iraq War vets as mods, it should likely get its own sticky. Besides, with members of the armed services having to be easily deployable (can be called upon to move in an instant, according to the needs of the military), distance education is a favorite with members of the uniformed services.

    BTW - One of our champion posters, the very eminent Dr. Rich Douglas (doctoral protege of the eminent Dr. John Bear), was in the military too.
    Theo the Educated Derelict
    BA, History/Political Science, Western State College of Colorado, 1984
    MBA, Entrepreneurship, City University of Seattle, 1992
    MBA, Marketing, City University of Seattle, 1993

    Politics is made from two words: "poly" meaning "many" and "ticks" meaning "blood-sucking insects."

  5. #21
    Dr Rene is offline Registered User
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    Military.com is one of the few websites that focus on education opportunities in the military. But I don’t know if it is officially sanction by the DoD or any of the services.

    http://www.military.com/education-home/
    Rene
    DBA, Argosy University Orange County 2003
    MBA, University of North Dakota 1985
    BBA, Angelo State University 1981

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  7. #22
    dave042 is offline Registered User
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    Ted- I'm currently serving in the Army and can give you my opinion. Enlisting with an bachelors degree would automatically qualify him for promotion to E-4. After serving for a couple of years, he should be eligible for promotion to E-5 and if he wanted to, apply to OCS to become a commissioned officer. Be advised even if he selects engineering MOS, he would be performing just about any job the army needs, combat patrols, base security, clearing buildings. Deployments are a minimum of 12 months to 15 months. Not to get off topic but he would have a higher chance of contracting PTSD that being killed in combat.

    I would recommend him to consider the Air Force. Their deployments are from 4 to 6 months and then they go to the rear for recovery. Living conditions on the air bases are way much better than on the FOBs (forward operating bases). The benefits and pay are about the same if not better.

  8. #23
    Dono is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Heiks View Post
    The Tedmeister needs help here. I am trying to advise my niece's boyfriend but I am inadequate because I do not have a military background. The niece's boyfriend is working on his bachelor's in civil engineering (he will finish soon). He has said that he would like to join the military. I have told myu niece privately (not in front of him, but I said it's okay for her to share) that I hope he does not end up with his brains splattered all over some god-forsaken desert because I don't want my darling little niece to become a poor dear grieving widow at the age of 20. First, do you know if he could join for some non-combatant duty, like the Army Corps of Engineers? Do you know if he could join as an officer given that he will graduate a civilian college (the University of Toledo)? Do you know how the financial aid works? When I tried to join in 1988 (rejected due to prior history of epilepsy), they made you choose between either: (a) rack up a bunch of student loans before the Army and let the Army pay them off for you at 15% per year or (b) take classes while in the Army under military TAP and let the Army pay 75% of your tuition bill or (c) save up for the GI Bill and go to college after the Army. Do you know if it is possible to use the Army for multiple types of financial aid for multiple degrees these days. I'd like to be able to give my soon-to-be-nephew-in-law some good advice. Please help.

    Ted,

    Your getting great feedback here. However, I would caution enlisting into any branch with a B.S. He should try for a commission utilizing OTS, OCS, or whatever the branch he chooses calls it. The Air Force is in need of civil engineers and I think that would be the best choice for him. As a prior Army and Air Force enlisted guy, now Air Force officer, I can tell you that going in enlisted and then applying to be an officer may or may not work out. But if you quality to be an officer from the start, why would you cut yourself short by enlisting? If he was in clinical engineering or health systems engineering I would direct him to find out more information on the Medical Service Corps.....since I don't think that is that case then I'll point you here www.airforceots.com. It has much information about OTS and the process for applying.

    I have a friend that enlisted with a Ph.D......he's now an officer but I outrank him because he decided to enlist first...... He should at least try to get commissioned first....if that fails, well, I would look at DoD Civ programs.
    A.S. - Dental Lab Technology - CCAF
    A.S. - Instruction & Technology - CCAF
    B.S. - CISM - Colorado Christian University
    M.B.A. - Healthcare Administration - NCU
    D.H.Sc. - ATSU Student - Planned Graduation June 2018
    FACHE
    CDFM
    CMRP

  9. #24
    Jazz Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by dave042 View Post
    Ted- I'm currently serving in the Army and can give you my opinion. Enlisting with an bachelors degree would automatically qualify him for promotion to E-4. After serving for a couple of years, he should be eligible for promotion to E-5 and if he wanted to, apply to OCS to become a commissioned officer. You don't need to serve a couple years to apply to OCS. Be advised even if he selects engineering MOS, he would be performing just about any job the army needs, combat patrols, base security, clearing buildings. Deployments are a minimum of 12 months to 15 months. Not true. The 82nd Airborne routinely deploys for 4-6 months. Not to get off topic but he would have a higher chance of contracting PTSD that being killed in combat. What??

    I would recommend him to consider the Air Force. Their deployments are from 4 to 6 months and then they go to the rear for recovery. Every service returns to their base after a deployment Living conditions on the air bases are way much better than on the FOBs (forward operating bases). That's a pretty general statement. It depends on where you go. The benefits and pay are about the same if not better. The benefits and pay are exactly the same. Only the quality of life is better in the AF.
    I added a few of my own comments in bold.

  10. #25
    major56 is offline Registered User
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    The OCS selection process is very selective. Only about 60 percent of all those who apply are accepted for attendance at OCS (Note: Enlisted [current military] selection rates are relatively higher. About 70 percent of enlisted applicants make it through the screening process). It should be noted that College Graduate (Civilians) and Current Military (enlisted) do not compete with each other for available OCS slots. OSC graduates are commissioned 2nd Lieutenants (2LT) in the U.S. Army Reserve (USAR); Marine OCS graduates commissioned in the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve (USMCR); U.S. Air Force OTS graduates are commissioned in the U.S. Air Force Reserve (USAFR) and Navy OCS are commissioned in the U.S. Navy Reserve (USNR).

    Another Army commissioning option is State OCS with the Army National Guard (ANG). Upon successful completion of State OCS, the new officer is commissioned, e.g., 2LT ANGUS (Army National Guard United States /Federal). Prior to enlisting, the applicant, if degreed, could be guaranteed State OCS entry prior to enlisting in the National Guard; moreover, Army National Guard officers upon completion of their Branch OBC (Officer Basic Course) can option, and if seleceted, to remain on active duty vs. returning to their State NG unit. Besides, the vast majority of active duty commissioned officers are Reserve Officers on active duty due to Regular Commissioned officer number limitations under U.S. Code Title 10 - Armed Forces, (e.g., Regular Army (RA) USA vs. USAR or ANGUS, USMC vs. USMCR, or USAF vs. USAFR, USN vs. USNR, USCG vs. USCGR). Of course augmenting into the Regular Officer Corps can be available during one’s military career pattern – there are advantages to both, e.g., serving as a regular or reserve officer on active duty.
    Last edited by major56; 01-24-2010 at 11:45 AM.
    Major56
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  11. #26
    Ted Heiks is offline Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member
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    Wink

    If my niece's boyfriend goes with the option of seeking employment as a civil engineer as a civilian employee of the Department of Defense, as suggested upthread, does anybody know what education benefits that carries with it?
    Theo the Educated Derelict
    BA, History/Political Science, Western State College of Colorado, 1984
    MBA, Entrepreneurship, City University of Seattle, 1992
    MBA, Marketing, City University of Seattle, 1993

    Politics is made from two words: "poly" meaning "many" and "ticks" meaning "blood-sucking insects."

  12. #27
    Ted Heiks is offline Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member
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    Wink

    MODS: Why doesn't this thread have its own Sticky yet?
    Theo the Educated Derelict
    BA, History/Political Science, Western State College of Colorado, 1984
    MBA, Entrepreneurship, City University of Seattle, 1992
    MBA, Marketing, City University of Seattle, 1993

    Politics is made from two words: "poly" meaning "many" and "ticks" meaning "blood-sucking insects."

  13. #28
    major56 is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Heiks View Post
    If my niece's boyfriend goes with the option of seeking employment as a civil engineer as a civilian employee of the Department of Defense, as suggested upthread, does anybody know what education benefits that carries with it?
    Regarding DOD civilian workforce employees; DOD does sponsor 2-seperate college scholarships and 3-seperate graduate fellowships.

    http://www.godefense.com/scholarships.html

    DOD Civilian Personnel Management Service:

    http://www.cpms.osd.mil/
    Major56
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  15. #29
    Maniac Craniac Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Heiks View Post
    MODS: Why doesn't this thread have its own Sticky yet?
    We did it, WHOO!!!!

  16. #30
    Ted Heiks is offline Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Maniac Craniac View Post
    We did it, WHOO!!!!
    I sent a PM to Randell (who is a Gulf War vet) and he very quickly sent me a return PM saying, "Done." :D
    Theo the Educated Derelict
    BA, History/Political Science, Western State College of Colorado, 1984
    MBA, Entrepreneurship, City University of Seattle, 1992
    MBA, Marketing, City University of Seattle, 1993

    Politics is made from two words: "poly" meaning "many" and "ticks" meaning "blood-sucking insects."

  17. #31
    Randell1234 is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Heiks View Post
    I sent a PM to Randell (who is a Gulf War vet) and he very quickly sent me a return PM saying, "Done." :D
    Just a correction - not a Gulf War vet but was almost activated. I was almost activated for the first Gulf War (Desert Shield/Storm), Somalia, Bosnia, and the second Gulf War. I decided after 4 near misses it was time to give up my $98.47 per weekend!

    I was in AIT during the first Gulf War and the graduating class just ahead of me went, during one near miss, I think it was Bosnia, we had to get our living will in order, and during the last near miss (second Gulf War) in 2003 I had to have a full dental x-ray and DNA swab. They cancelled a PT test that weekend to do this. That is when I knew it was serious!

  18. #32
    major56 is offline Registered User
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Randell1234 View Post
    Just a correction - not a Gulf War vet but was almost activated.
    Randell,

    Your honesty is sincerely appreciated!:)
    Major56
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