The Dr. and Mr. Gina

HI everyone...I need your help.


Since becomming a member of this board, I am more and more sure that my husband can complete his BA degree with not much effort at all. The hard part is trying to convince him of that. This is where I need your help.

"Mr. Gina" has about 23 college credits from our local comunity college from several years ago, as well as technical school diplomas for computer operator/programmer. This schools do not exist anylonger (its been over 15 years since he graduated from them). He Works in the MIS dept. at his company doing helpdesk/networking/programming, ect and most of his experience and training is in the computer/technical field (over 20 years)


Can you guys help me make a convincing arguement for my husband to continue his education DL? This is something that he has always wanted to do, but somehow is not motivated to do it, or feels that he cannot take time away for the already little time he has. I feel that his lack of motivation to continue at a B&M school is due to sitting in a classroom for upteen hours and the length of time it may take for him to complete the degree.


Thanks...

 

Light a few candles, and put on something sexy then.......

Well then he will probably do what ever you want.

 

depending upon what type of degree he wants, i know that ITT now has computer classes in networking and webstuff and maybe programing (you would have to check) I have both an Associates and Bachelors from them that serverd me well before the tech crash (Former Dell Employee) The price tag hurts, but its an idea. Excelscior will also give hime credit for his MCSE CCNA etc if he has those titles as well.

 

Check AIU

American InterContinental University offers an AABA in 8 months.
I did it with a 3.92 avg.

My work week averages about 60-70 hours. I can be in one state or another at any given time. It was tough at times but worth it.

I am 8 months away from a BBA then MBA.
Check it out, I have not found anyplace yet that offers better.

With his credits and experience he should breeze through.
I had systems credits from Shepherd College and Strayer University. AIU accepted credits for liberal arts but refused my programming credits over 10 years old

 

Re: Check AIU

Thanks for the info, but my husband's credits are well over 10 years old, so I am not sure AIU would be an option, but I will definately look at it. I like the "big three" and WGU as possibilities, only because of the possible experience/portofilo credit that he may receive.

 

There are many colleges that will not accept credits that date back 10 years. It wouldn't hurt to inquire and ask the admissions representatives of the big 3 DL schools if he's eligible for a degree by examination.
However, I do encourage him to finish his degree. He can forget the promotions, pay increases, incentives and new opportunities unless he finishes his degree.

 

I'm going to disagree with everyone (except Gina's husband).

Gina, make your husband aware that shortcuts to a degree exist. But tell him you love him the way he is.

It sounds as if he already has the professional skills he needs, and is using his time very productively. If he tells a manager "I'm largely self-taught, but look at what I've accomplished professionally", there is no shame in that.

Bill Gates got where he is without a degree. One of my own undergraduate classmates dropped out of university at the beginning of 4th year to pursue a money-making opportunity that arose. A couple of years later he went to work for Microsoft, and I reallly envy him, because I'm sure he could afford to retire today. I've had a couple of other colleagues who are really satisfied with their computing careers without having degrees. We had a computer security specialist posting here who had no degrees besides a Master's in music from Saint Regis University, but whose salary is $120,000.

Why does your husband feel he has to work so hard? Maybe so his colleagues will give him good references. If he gets laid off next year, he can do his degree next year, and then he'll have the degree and the references.

Plus, if the federal government really does begin to offer a "Bachelor of Arts Equivalency Diploma", a lot of people who put time and money into getting a degree may start feeling rather foolish...

 

And I am going to disagree with you

I have worked in IT for 14+ years. Rightly or wrongly, many practical experience (no degree) IT workers are discriminated against. They tend to make less money because they come in at a lower salary than degreed people and those percentage point pay raises never allow them to catch up. When it comes layoff time, they are quite often the first let go as they are viewed as less valuable to the company. Then, when they try to get another job they struggle as most HR people are not IT people. They look for degrees, period. Don't have one? You must not be qualified. Consulting firms want degrees because it makes their consultant's services more marketable. Look at the classifieds and you'll see what I mean. Gina, unless your husband is really feeling secure at his job he needs a degree to thrive in today's market. And he needs a BA/BS, not an associates degree. During the IT crunch an AA was adequate but not any more. My company just rewrote their hiring standards and the only people getting hired as IT staff without BA's are internals, no externals. As your husband is already in the field and the degree is work related it should be tax deductible. Also, that time limit for transfer is flexible. There are several schools that will grant him credit regardless of how old the credits are. Good luck to him.

 

one other thing

My wife and I both have degrees, but not in IT. Practical experience can work if it is coupled with a degree. However, our masters degrees are (hers will be when she's done) though so we belatedly covered that requirement. The key thing is people look at people with degrees differently than they do at people w/o degrees. Especially, people with degrees. They are even more likely to consider the degree a requirement. It may not be right or fair but that is the way it is.

 

Chris has provided some valuable input, but just a couple of points:

> They tend to make less money because they come in at a
> lower salary than degreed people and those percentage point
> pay raises never allow them to catch up.

People sometimes focus too much on salaries. Someone collecting interest from savings in a bank account might be better off than someone who spent those savings on a degree. Of course, that's more of an issue with brick-and-mortar degrees.

In 20 years of working, accepting only offers where salary > current, one does find ways to catch up.

> Then, when they try to get another job they struggle as
> most HR people are not IT people. They look for degrees,
> period.

Most of the jobs that most people have ever held were never advertised. They were obtained through personal contact -- in the IT field, with IT people. The HR people may have had to be placated, but they weren't the ones making the decisions.

> The key thing is people look at people with degrees
> differently than they do at people w/o degrees.

I have two degrees in Computer Science, and as far as I can recall from my job interviews, employers never really showed much interest in them. (The degrees did allow me to get a work permit and eventually permanent residency in the US, but that was a preoccupation of the US government, not of the employer.)

For someone working at a menial job, a degree may well be the best way up. For someone who's already a professional, his professional reputation is what matters most.

 

Who works for fun

Salary is only one portion of the equation but it is a big one. Especially, within the same office. Why do the same work as the guy across the cubicle wall for less money? When you have two kids in college and no aid coming in that money suddenly becomes pretty important. Aid starts disappearing at $50k for a family of 4. My wife lost hers completely when family income hit a little under $70. When you have a mortgage and the other essentials $70k ain't a whole lot and who in that range can afford $10,000 for tuition for two kids? Oops, I am sorry, a recent presidential candidate said that $70k family were in the rich category so maybe my perspective is screwed up. This is the dilemma of most middle income families in America today. And as far as catching up, getting your degree is the best leverage you have for asking for more money. In the private sector you can placate the HR people but in the government sector they reign supreme. If the rules say you have to have a degree, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A DEGREE. I work for a state government and see history majors with BA's get IT jobs that AIT's (Ass. Info. Tech) can't get because the requirement is for a BA degree. They can work in the private sector but for a lot less money and a whole lot less in benefits. Again, why do the work for less money?? This isn't a rant at you Mark, just a statement of how cruel the world that we all must live with can be . That is why we are all here trying to better ourselves in the first place isn't it?

 

I'll leave you with a quote.

A friend of mine (who is the dean of a business school and has a PHD) once said to me of the importance of an education, "Chris because I know you, I know you are a pretty smart guy and I will always be glad to hire you. However, if I didn't know you from Adam and it was hire you (with an MBA) or another person with a PHD; I'll go with the PHD every time." And, as they say on Business Week, "MBA's tend to hire other MBA's." It is all in your perspective.

 

chris wrote:

> Why do the same work as the guy across the cubicle wall for
> less money? When you have two kids in college and no aid
> coming in that money suddenly becomes pretty important.

OK, we agree money is important. You may be better off than the guy across the cubicle wall, if you're collecting interest on savings and he's trying to pay off debt.

> In the private sector you can placate the HR people but in
> the government sector they reign supreme. If the rules say
> you have to have a degree, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A DEGREE.

If you want to work for the government, good luck to you. All I see is more and more cutbacks. And the people I talk to (on this board, even) seem politically to the right of me, so I don't see the cutbacks stopping.

There is a (sort-of) third sector: academia. The professors I worked for didn't care about my degrees.

> This isn't a rant at you Mark, just a statement of how cruel
> the world that we all must live with can be.

Which is a crueller world: one where having a degree sets you up for life, or one where your job is on the line every day, based on how valuable your employer currently thinks you are?

> A friend of mine (who is the dean of a business school and
> has a PHD) once said to me [...], "[...] if I didn't know you from
> Adam and it was hire you (with an MBA) or another person with
> a PHD; I'll go with the PHD every time."

You'd expect the dean of business school to be positive on Ph.D.s. Many other people might think they made a candidate "overqualified".

 

Wise words.

From Excelsior College web site:
Q: Can I satisfy all my technology requirements through proficiency exams and distance courses?
A: It is possible to do so for the A.S./B.S. degrees in Computer Information Systems and for most of the specializations offered in the A.S./B.S. in Technology programs.

Regardless of whether your husband chooses to go for a degree, he might want to consider the fact that some continuing education in his fast-advancing field might result in greater job satisfaction and new challenges.

 

Tell him that if he gets a BA, he can tell everyone he is a bachelor. Better still, tell him that after he gets his Master’s degree you will forever call him master, just like Jeannie (I dream of Gina?).

 

Isn't there a GRE for information systems? If Mr. Gina has THAT much experience in the field, the GRE may not be that big of a challenge...he could then graduate from Excelsior without too much effort.

 

Yeah, and I've got a bridge you might like to buy too.
Jack

 

[email protected]:
We had a computer security specialist posting here who had no degrees besides a Master's in music from Saint Regis University, but whose salary is $120,000.

Roy:
I should ask him if he want to buy the three square feet of soil (in my garden) that I've designated as Liberian soil. Going price - $120,000.

 

I knew it! I knew it! SRU graduates are the tomatoes! (see my last post on this subject in another thread)

 

A few points..

Ok, let me start...

First of all, I want to thank everybody for their input into this matter. You guys have are funny and smart - all the reason why I enjoy being on this board.

I do love my husband the way he is, and I tell him this every day. I've known him for over 13 years, and been married and we have been through a lot together - I can't envision myself being with anyone else. (Sorry Guys )


However, he is miserable and feels like he is stuck in a rut at his job. Every opportunity that he has had to move up or obtain another position at his job or elsewhere was squashed by either not having a "College Degree" or a BA - irregardless of his experience (he has been doing this stuff since the early 1980's - his first start was with Grumman Corp.). He is stressed out and wants to grow, but can't because of the degree! He has used the experience angle, but employment agencies don't see him as to marketable without the degree - AS or BS/BA - which what companies here on LI/Queens are asking for. He can work in NYC for more money, but it would be doing "the same thing" whith the additional stress of a commute. Chris does hit the nail on the head - My husabnd has had a very similar experience.

As far as the question to job security, there have been a lot of changes at his job - management wise - so there is an overall feeling of insecurity. Right now, there is a shortage in his dept, so he is not so worried about his job.

As far as to his desire to obtian a degree I feel is two fold. One is for all the financial and personal gains and satisfaction that he would get from haveing a degree. The other (which I feel and he won't admit to) is the fact that I am seeking my doctorate and that my son (his stepson) will soon be going to college himself, and he either feels "left out" or for some other subconscious reason that he can't explain. I can sit here an analyze this all day, but I won't - he is my husband and I love him for who he is (he met me before I got my degrees) and I want to help make him happy.


As for Cyrus's statement, if there is a GRE in info systems - that would be very helpful.


On that note....