I consider myself a novice when it comes to DL, and one name that consistently comes up as an expert in the field is John Bear. I've come to view John's advice with a lot of credibility...along with the information I get here on the forum. So, I was looking into John Bear's books, and I was a bit caught off guard to learn that John was a part owner (or at the least, involved) with 3 diploma mills. Is this true, or is this misinformation? I apologize if this has been discussed in a past forum.
I have not seen it discussed lately.... he posts here and should respond soon (I hope). BTW - His book rocks!
I've heard great things about his books, and I've seen his posts here, which is why I was a bit surprised. For what it's worth, and it probably very little, my "source" for this was from the Amazon customer review section for one of John's books, so I could be completely misinformed. The schools mentioned that John was involved were as follows: Greenwich University Fairfax University Columbia State University Institute for Advanced Studies
Short version: John was involved with some legitimate dl start up schools. All schools start up unaccredited. After the start up John moved on to other activites and these schools failed to put out the effort to become accredited. They all could be described as legitimate unaccredited schools. Degree mill proponets and operators often try to use this to attempt to discredit John. He is clearly the leader in the field as demonstrated by the Federal government repeatedly seeking him out for assistance.
I don't know all of the details on this, but there are a couple of things I would suggest keeping in mind. One is that 30 or 20 or even 10 years ago, choices for distance learning -- particularly for earning degrees completely through distance learning -- were much more limited. Now that accredited schools are offering a huge variety of programs in distance learning, choosing an unaccredited school makes much less sense. The second is that ALL schools start out as unaccredited. Although some would have you believe that most people here believe that every unaccredited school is a degree mill, this is not the case. There are legimate schools that are on the path to accrediation. While some might argure that it is not a good decision to actually enroll in any school until it receives accreditation, that does not mean that every unaccredited school is a degree mill. An individual could become involved with a school because he/she believes that it is legimate and on the road to proper accreditation, only to have the institution change course and devlove into a degree mill. In such a case, the only problem that I see is if that individual continued to maintain an affiliation with that school after learning that it was (or was becoming) a degree mill. The third thing I would suggest keeping in mind is that degree mills hire people for the express purpose of spreading misinformation. Sometimes, it is outright lies. More often, there is a nugget of truth, but it is highly embellished, or taken completely out of context.
Dear Albie I trust "looking into" my books means considering buying one . . . because if you looked inside one, you would find clear descriptions of my four school involvements over the past 25 years. It can do no harm, I hope, to repeat some of that information here. Columbia Pacific University In 1977, I was approached by the president of a regionally accredited university, New College, to consult with him and his colleague (a Harvard MD psychiarist) in the starting of a new university. I agreed to do so, working for stock in lieu of money. In those early years, there were three former presidents of accredited universities on the staff: B. Engbretson of Governors State, A. Blum of Point Park, and L. Carr of New College and Lewis University. During the 4 or 5 years of my involvement, CPU was State Authorized (then the only form of state licensing), later State Approved. I sold my small minority share back to them in the early 1980s, and have had no involvement for more than 20 years. Fairfax University The two men who ran Columbia Pacific's sizeable operation in England (where Prime Minister Wilson was a commencement speaker) decided to leave and start their own school, Fairfax University, which had the necessary (and easy to get) Louisiana license. My wife and I agreed to a part-time involvement. But there were differences of opinion and style, and we resigned in 1986, two months after incorporation, and before the first student enrolled. International Institute/Greenwich University In 1972, Alexander Niven and 7 or 8 colleagues who taught at accredited colleges in St. Louis, started the International Institute for Advanced Studies, one of the first non-resident graduate schools, appropriately licensed by Missouri (also not a demanding process). 15 or 16 years later, Niven became very ill, and none of his colleagues were able to keep the Institute going (it had about 20 students). Niven asked if I would keep it going. My family was in the process of moving to Hawaii at that time (for totally non-school-related reasons), and I agreed. My friend John Walsh (a prominent Australian attorney) and I decided to do this as a partnership, and to expand the concept and the size into a distance university which we named Greenwich. I was involved full-time with Greenwich from the day of its founding (2/2/90) until the summer of 1991, when the opportunity arose to get involved with Heriot-Watt University, and move back to California (which we really missed). Heriot-Watt University In the fall of 1991, my wife and I became the US (and, soon after, Canadian) agents for this venerable (founded 1821) Scottish university, involved in marketing their distance MBA program. We did this fulltime for about seven years, during which time this became the largest MBA in the United States and in Canada. In 1998, we sold our marketing business to a division of Pearson, the huge British publisher (Prentice Hall, Penguin, The Economist, Financial Times, on and on). While I have had no involvement or connection with Columbia Pacific since about 1982, Fairfax since 1986, and Greenwich since 1991, I am not aware of any serious academic irregularities at any of them in the time I was there or the years since I left. Of course I know about CPU's problems with California, and I have read through many hundreds of pages of documents from both parties. That said, I am not happy with some of the other things done, that I would not have done, including Indian accreditation (CPU), Australian accreditation claim (Greenwich), and mailing service addresses (Fairfax). I do appreciate that some people think it somehow inappropriate for me to have had school involvements, as if I were a public utility or an elected official who should not both write books and earn a living in related areas. I remain absolutely convinced that my school involvements have never affected my writings about other schools in any way whatsoever. At its peak, Columbia Pacific occupied roughly 1/400th of the space in Bears' Guide, the others even less. If anyone has further questions, don't hesitate to ask here or directly to me at [email protected].
I think I should thank John Bear for the book that I purchased in about 1983. I enrolled in the then University of the State of New York and completed 90 odd units before I went on to complete a Masters Degree in Public Policy and Administration with Charles Sturt University. The one regret I have is that I did not finish that degree. The Aussie dollar scuttled my endeavour. Distance education was not readily available with my qualifications in the area of the world I lived in at that time. It was a ridiculous situation that I could do a degree with a university from the other side of the world, but not from my own country. It did give me,however,the kick start I needed to get my Masters degree. I think recognition should be given to those schools for the simple reason that they broke the ground. Whatever they later became, the more traditional schools would not be in distance learning marketplace if it was not for them. They challenged the status quo and have more than proved the point that distance learning is not an inferior education. As a student from the pre internet days, I have to say John Bear's book was a lifeline. It was not easy to find information on distance learning universities without it Thanks John.
Good Observation Albie Finding that schools in which you feel should not have any association with a great name such as DR. John Bear is part of the process that we all must go through....research and investigation. I am not sure where you are in achieving your educational goals but to read DR Bear's Books is a good place to start or pick up where you left off! The second part; I see you have found by perusing this forum. Next, you have to understand...businesses use notable figures to promote their products all the time. If you have something that you want the public to buy into and respect you try to tie it to a notable figure. Many schools do the same thing. You just have to be careful about the ones that do not follow-up their advertising campaign by actually buckling down and taking the proper steps to ensure what they are providing is quality. In fact, it appears that you already are aware that there are some less than wonderful schools out there looking to capitalize on the fact that we don't do our research and will take our money; leaving us will a useless paper "Dart Target Degree" to put on the wall. Read some of the post from back in 2001 or 2002. There are some schools that have been talked about in here that seemed to be jumping off to a great start...and where are they now? Wouldn't touch them with a 10' pole. And then there are some that I should have looked at because they have taken-off & received RA...and not to mention raised their prices! Mike AA Burlington College BA TESC MS SMSU JD Chapman (On Hold)
John, thanks for clearing that up! John, Thanks for the clarification, and I appreciate your candid response. Yes, I am well aware of how easy it is to "spin" certain facts to either benefit or besmirch others, which is why when I first came upon the degree mill information with a bit of skepticism, I wanted to hear your side of things. Having said that and for what it's worth, I just bought your book and look forward to reading more of your insights. Albie
Re: Good Observation Albie Mike, The forum and Dr. Bear's site have definitely been great places to start for information. I don't even remember how I came upon this forum, but it's been one of the best sources for feedback and expertise on DL. Albie
Albie: I just bought your book and look forward to reading more of your insights. John: Thank you. I've just earned another 75 cents! I'll think of you during the first third of my next Starbucks latte.
Gus, after my comment suggesting I have patronized Starbucks: "Proof of the link between Dr. Bear and...Dr. Evil!!!" John: Hey, I've paid my dues. See http://www.starbucked.com specifically http://www.starbucked.com/balance_middlefork/balquotes.html#bedbug for sections from both of my books on consumerism, relating to America's number one Starbucks opponent.
Wow! No wonder you and Jay are friends. I keep learning; I keep learning (especially that it can be done with wit, class and style). Thanks, Dr. Bear.
