Question for those who attended S.A.T.S.

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by flipkid, Aug 1, 2003.

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  1. flipkid

    flipkid New Member

    Questions:

    1.) How many in the forum have actually completed the S.A.T.S. program of studies?
    2.) Were you able to transfer your credits to a RA Brick and Mortar Institution with no problems, as oppossed to transfering to another DL overseas school. What was that process and could you name (if you do not mind) the RA institution? (Not TRACS or DETC) I know what the school says (I have their catalog thanks to this forum), but many unacredited schools say the same things as far as the acceptability of their degrees and their credits at other institutions.
    3.) What is the acceptablity factor of your overseas school on your job, community, peer circle, etc? (Not accreditation factor, please) I am not debating the legitmacy of the institution, nor what Human resource managers might say which usually centers soley on accreditation. I am asking for proof from those that have actually used them. What is your utility? Would you do it again?
    4.) Did you get a job strictly based on your S.A.T.S. degree as fufilling your educational requirement? Did you have the job already and this was something you did for personal fulfilment only? Was this a secondary degree so it did not really matter for employment purposes?
    5.) How do you answer the "when did you go to South Africa question?" Or do you only confess it was done through DL when challenged?

    I am not tryong to creat a flame but somehow i believe a firestorm will ensue...:D These were questions posed to me yesterday when I suggested that someone should seriously look into their program. Critical on their list was could they go to RA grad school with this degree without a lot of hassle. They felt like if they still have to argue and defend it to schools, employers, friends etc., what was the percieved difference between S.A.T.S. and a less than wonderful school except for the accreditation factor? The other school in question is Andersonville Theological Seminary.
     
  2. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Hi Flipkid:

    This is not really an exact response to your questions, but I can share what happened to me with SATS. Please bear in mind that others have had very positive experiences, and mine may not be normative. I found the SATS staff, especially Dr van Rensburg (the famous Reuben of earlier threads) to be very helpful and cordial. They were forthright in answering my questions and cashed my check right away.

    The problem came in submitting my doctoral thesis proposal to Unizul. The proposal was trashed by one of the profs at Unizul, I submitted both amendments and an alternative proposal, and then, despite inquiries, never heard another word for many months. Eventually I contacted SATS to see if they could find out what was going on. I never heard from them. Finally I got an e-mail from the faculty secretary at Unizul saying my proposal had been accepted after much debate. Well, THAT was a red flag (never do a diss where the dept/faculty is in a snit over its legitimacy). I asked which proposal was accepted: the original, the amended, or the alternative--no answer!

    So, I eventually wrote to SATS asking if I could apply the tuition payment to an M.Th., since the Unizul-SATS doc looked dead in the water--and since SATS had split up with Unizul by that point. No answer! The net result: I was out several hundred dollars and a number of phone calls. I am sure that part of the problem was the institutional break between SATS and Unizul, part of the problem was the quality of my proposal, and part of the problem was within the Unizul faculty of theology. I never asked for a refund, so I can't complain that I didn't get my money back, but the whole thing seemed chaotic and unresponsive.

    As far as Andersonville goes, my suspicion is that there's nothing they do that Luther Rice and ACCS don't do better, but you may have theological reasons to prefer Andersonville. I cannot vouch for the academic side of Andersonville, since it is unaccredited. Maybe others know more (which isn't difficult!).

    Best of luck. Janko
     
  3. flipkid

    flipkid New Member

    Thanks for your reply.

    I am not considering Andersonville for anything, but I have noticed that it has gained an immense foothold in my denomination (Missionary Baptist) as the Doctorate degree of choice for those who have churches that do not pay anything for continuing education. I was at a church this week and the pastor has a JD degree from a RA school and a M.Div from Andersonville.

    I have looked into the SATS program as well as many others, and found it intiguing and affordable. I offered it to a friend who is currently attending a unacredited school in Virginia for his MDiv. These were the questions that came up. He would rather attend a Brick and Mortar school that everyone knows exists but is not acredited, than to do the DL thing and have to justify it every time it comes up. (I do not agree with him)

    While we agree in DL not much is said on defending it, except for acreditation. That is why the attacks are so great on unacredited schools, I think. Eliminate them and maybe folks will now accept that my degree, though completed through DL is fully acredited...because nothing else exists.

    If I get this new position that I am looking at, I will be able to solve all my "school" issues from the financial standpoint. If not I will be plugging away one course at a time.
     
  4. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Hi Flipkid:
    As far as defending a SA degree is concerned, you may encounter either racism (an African degree???) or political correctness (the apartheid thing???). Is this regrettable? Sure. Stupid? Sure. Insurmountable? Nee man, you can handle it. People who want to pick will pick. If you went to Harvard, you're a snob. If you went to ---------- State, you're a party hearty moron. If you went to SATS, where the hell is that? If you go to Andersonville, why would you go to school at a place named after a concentration camp? Now none of this is pleasant, but it just doesn't matter. In my religious denomination, nobody in the ministry has gone to "outside" schools--let alone a famously ultra-liberal undergrad and a Jesuit (gasp gasp) grad school, as I did. Once they finish choking, they quickly come to their senses and dislike me for who I am, not where I went to school! The same will apply to you. If folks like you, where you went to school won't bother them, whatever AND however motivated their initial questions may be. If they don't, well, distance learning or South Efrica will be as good a stick as any with which to beat you.

    As far as defending a DL degree vs. B&M, this is what I do--and I've encountered little suspicion of it from parishioners or colleagues--I show them some work that I've done and describe my thesis-in-progress, if there's something impressive that my promoter has said I'll quote him, and, last but not least, I whine about how hard the work is, especially after putting in a 153-hour work week at the church! If anyone says overseas, I explain the exchange rate and mumble "on what you pay me...". This is always good for a laugh, since I am underpaid by denominational standards and the parish is genuinely embarrassed about that. The finance argument for DL, since I am in an economically poor area, is taken quite seriously as an explanation.

    To sum up, a touch of humor--never ever defensiveness--helps ignorant questions to dissipate. If you get serious, well-meant questions about overseas, DL, or even accreditation issues, if you've thought out your choice and can set it forth calmly and without polemic, that'll have to be good enough for those who question you--and in my experience it usually is.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Janko,

    This is an interesting, yet frustrating story. What was your proposal topic? And why did they have problems with it?

    Also, you allude to your "thesis-in-progress." What program are you enrolled in and where? I hope its going much better than the SATS/UZ scenario.

    What is the website of the school where those within your organization usually attend?

    You are certainly on target regarding those who will be critical regarding one's alma mater and method of earning a degree. Regardless of the route one chooses for one's education, one is always open to criticism from some sector of the populace.
     
  6. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Hi Vladica:

    No comment.
    Don't know.
    No comment.

    What website?
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Right to privacy, respected!!!!!!!!! ;)
     
  8. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Hi Vladica: It's not really privacy--superstition might be closer to the mark. It's sort of analogous to the "count no man happy until he is dead" business. The last time I was ABD and shot my mouth off, the doctorate crashed and burned. This time, nothing in public until it's done.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Superstition???

    Within the faith??? ;)

    Seriously, I hope all goes well with the program--whatever it is.
     
  10. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

  11. flipkid

    flipkid New Member

    I needed this laugh this morning...you are so right on it! :D

    If I am downright honest, the only "problems" I have had with my degrees have been in this forum, and others like it. I can count on one hand when because of my degrees not being RA, I have been denied a job or a promotion and yes I am always upfront about where they came from. My school is not listed in Bear's Guide as a degree mill or under misc. schools...ie make up your own mind...lol. It is not listed on Oregon's website. It was listed in Walston's several years ago...I am waiting on the new copy of the book now. I have been challenged by some peers, but that is the academic arrogance I spoke about...anybody who did not go to their school is slammed...RA or not.

    I don't have to defend against another school. My choice was my choice...my reasons my reasons. One look at my resume and ministry synopsis, a read of my two books and articles in the local State Covention newspaper and usually I am left alone by my peers. So when I get it RA it will be for me and not to please or appease anyone else. If they got a problem with it they can pay for it...:D

    S.A.T.S. looks good to me. This looks like where I will hang my "ministry" degree work...The secular stuff will do one course at a time through DL starting this fall.
     
  12. kevingaily

    kevingaily New Member

    Hi!

    I would've posted sooner, but I am a student and not graduated from SATS. I have found them to be very kind and prompt when I e-mailed my questions. I like their curriculum and you can't beat the price. I am saddened by UNK's bad experience, perhaps they have gotten things ironed out a bit now. I hope! :D


    God bless you in your studies!



    Kevin
     
  13. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    They may well have done. My problems were all connected to the link with University of Zululand. That's gone now.
     
  14. flipkid

    flipkid New Member

    So far so good...recieved the prospectus the other day and have been putting the package of stuff, books, etc. to send to them to see where I stand. Since I am paying for this out of my own pocket affordability has been a big issue with me...I am more conservative in my older age...don't want to make any debts, including loans I might not be able to pay back. Especially in the ministry when they call you today, kick you out tommorrow for no reason at all other than the fact they can do it...lol.

    If I had the money upfront TESC would be the best bet, but since I do not I will plod along till I get it done with whoever through correspondance. That is unless I get this new position which actually has a Continuing Ed line item.

    Since I have always been a rebel, I can handle the criticsm fine of the degree...eventually I will get my friend to enter as well.
     
  15. AlnEstn

    AlnEstn New Member

    Since I am not a graduate, nor even at this time officially a S.A.T.S student, though I hope to begin by Sept./03 in a structured MTh program, I have hesitated from responding.
    A couple things to note:
    - S.A.T.S. has been the best institution to deal with that I have experienced in my search to do further education (prompt reply to questions, helpfullness in getting through the applicaton process, willingness to try and work out a program that is right for me, etc.) Many other institutions did not even reply to my inquiries, including several well known SA institutions.
    - Since I had decided that at this time one of the SA institutions would work best for me (combination of: available programs, flexibility of programs, cost, theological position of the institution or faculty and recognition of accreditation), the best I found were S.A.T.S, C.T.B.S (Capt Town Baptist Seminary) and Unizul. I am leaning heavily towards C.T.B.S or Unizul for the doctorate.
    - If I became financially wealthy (which is doubtful, I am a pastor of a rural church in northern Ontario, Canada) I would take Baptist Bible Seminary's (RA) Ph.D. after my MTh. I inquired with them about the acceptability of a S.A.T.S MTh, and although I did not save the email, nor could they give an official, authoritative answer, I sensed an openess to evaluate the accreditation of SA institutions and take a look at the quality of work of the program. Basically they would not view a S.A.T.S. qualificaiton different from any person wanting to enter with a foreign degree, and did not seem to have the attitude that only the US system does it right.
    - I must admit that the work S.A.T.S expects for my program seems very significant (almost staggering), and I may let you in on the details once it is all finalized (which it almost is). It would certainly scare anyone away who was not a glotton for punishment (like I have ben described at times :D )
     
  16. kevingaily

    kevingaily New Member


    Alan,

    I agree with what you're saying. I find the program for the Bth challenging, and it is by no means a fly-through. My first assignment was a 5 page essay on the covenant, and the test was, I think, 9 pages. They told my that they were taking it easy on us since it was my first test. My point is that I'm learning a lot and doing a lot of research as well. The classes are well thought out and effective at communicating what is being taught. I really like it.
     
  17. flipkid

    flipkid New Member

    Thank you for all of your positive comments on this topic. Yesterday I had a phone conversation with Rick Walston while ordering his book and we talked about SATS for awhile. He did not think too highly of it and suggested a couple of other schools in South Africa but I am waiting to see what he has written before I comment any further. I do not want to misquote him.

    From what I have seen, so far it appears that SATS is a good option for those who may have legitimate but less than wonderful degrees who now because of either seeing the "light" or having recieved a financial windfall (which many pastors never do, by the way) desire to return to a more traditional degree through the path of DL.
     

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