Heriot-Watt University DBA by distance learning

I note that the Edinburgh Business School of Heriot-Watt University will be launching a non-resident DBA program in September. It appears to be extremely rigorous (3 year full time, up to 7 year part time), and not inexpensive (upwards of $25,000).

www.ebsmba.com -- and one wonders why they have eschewed the ".edu" designation?

 

There are many RA/Australian/South African options for less than $25k.

 

Some DBAs are worth having

John

Without wishing to be accused of mentioning my affiliation - though why anybody thinks this forum is full of potential students looking for a home beats me - I am not quite clear why you ask your question, or indeed what it is about. Please enlighten me.

Why must/should/might we use "edu" as an address designation? What is the significance of your comment?

The site was established over a year before we went public: "ebsmba.com" was chosen by me, without consultation, to register the name, that's all. As a working title that appeared to be appropriate, just as we registered "EBS" as limited company in 1982, fifteen years before EBS Ltd went active. Names one gets used to have a habit of growing on the people concerned.

Indeed, our DBA was registered three years ago - it is called planning ahead.

Your are correct to note how rigorous EBS is about is educational products - tough but fair exams, no continuous assessments open to DL fraud, pass or perish, no choice of questions, closed book, invigilated by independent agencies (usually the British Council, an agency of the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office), graded at EBS and Externaly Examined by senior faculty of other UK universities, and proud of our non-zero failure rates.

Manjuap is correct, there are cheaper DBAs and easier (i.e., softer exam regimes) ones too, and good luck to them. EBS does not cater for that segment of the student population. In the end quality will out. If you want the fastest, easiest and cheapest DBA (or MBA for that matter), I recommend you go somewhere else (even print you own diploma).

 

How would EBS, as a Scottish institution, get a .edu domain name? The .edu TLD is reserved for higher ed. organizations that are accredited by accreditors approved by the U.S. Dept. of Education.

The EBS DBA does seem to be a reasonable program, unlike some of the amazingly feeble doctorates available from "accredited" U.S. and South African sources.

 

Re: Re: Heriot-Watt University DBA by distance learning

If any should it not be ".ac.uk"?

 

Technical matters

Mike

Edinburgh Business School is a company limited by guarantee, wholly owned by Heriot-Watt University. It uses for email the "ac.uk" designation, but its web addresses use "ebsmba" or "ebsdba. com", mirrored by registered limited companies, to prevent, such as the 'suspicious' European Business School' from confusing the market. Sorry, but purely legal and technical matters.

Incidentally, EBS is recognised by the US Dept of Education for Stafford Loans purposes, but this came several years after the domain names were registered along with the mirror companies.

 

Re: Some DBAs are worth having

Is EBS MBA accredited by AACSB or AMBA or EQUIS ?

 

The EBS DBA programme is very intersting, especially the progject management part. too bad you did not offer it a year ago, that was one of the paths I was interested in. but now that i am half way through the course portion at Colorado State I think I will stick without (although I had not planned to take so much math after I passed 50).

 

Short answer

Hi Manjuap

The short answer is No.

EBS has not applied, and has no plans to do so, for unofficial "accreditation" by any of AMBA, AACSB, EQUIS, or any of their rival agencies, posing as quality assessors, but in fact organisations used by their "members" for marketing purposes.

Our accreditation is by Heriot-Watt University's Royal Charter, the only official accrediation available in the UK.

Some of the DL members of these "accreditation" agencies do not meet our quality standards; none of them surpass the standards of our exam regime.

Mike

Sorry we were too late for you but setting up a DBA programme is not something you do overnight. Apart from the vast investment in establishing the courses, there were all the regulatory requirements of having it pass through the University's strict quality controls.

 

Each single one of the Top 20 MBA programs in Europe has either EQUIS or AMBA accreditation, some very few even US-AACSB accreditation, and a little less even ALL THREE of them.

Though I personally do not see too much sense especially in AMBA either, I hold EQUIS/EFMD and AACSB for extraordinarily skilled and therefore for very important for any position in academic and professional recognization throughout Europe (and above). Any school not "caring" about these forms of accreditation will in my opinion - and based by research - not easy get in the top of minds of (current and future) industry and academia decision makers, not to mention the media and their fairly important rankings. These schools in my opinion do not do themselves a favor when they categorically misthink the rising importance of accreditation in a time where even the EU is on the way of thinking about making professional accreditation a necessary step for recognizing the degrees (Cp. Bologna declaration, Sorbonne declaration, and following conferences of the ministries of education!). Besides, it is bad "self-marketing" which makes it obviously not easier to attract prospective students willing to pay above-average tuition fees for a non-accredited program (when on the other side for not too much more money the could get a degree from INSEAD & Co. which everybody knows in Europe) and to consist in a dynamic worldwide competition of Education.

So much for my 2 cents about this topic.

Best regards,

Trigger

 

Prof. Kennedy wrote:

And with EBS' 10,000+ mba students and open admission policies, they certainly don't need any extra self-marketing tools.

-S

 

...as long as they have a "market", everything is perfectly allright with them. they are legit, they have royal charter, they give flexibility for those that search for exactly such a program, so they must be a good choice for certain people, no doubt.

so is University of Phoenix, but that does not say they are highest reachable standard (though maybe in regard to their tuition fees).

all i´m saying is: accreditation is getting more and more a serious issue also in europe, where SO FAR state authorization was/is enough. but times are already changing...

greets,
trigger

 

Triggersoft

I have no wish to start an argument with you as our perceptions of the MBA market are different. I do not know from what vantage point your are writing or how much you know about the various pedagogies on offer in MBAs and DBAs.

You seem to be concerned about the combination of European Regulatory bodies and what you call "professional accreditation" agencies and their affect on MBA programmes. I appreciate your concerns, though I must say the view from my vantage point as a member of the team that runs a large Business School may be different. The people who run the "accreditation agencies" but not Business Schools are known individually to us, as are many of the people who run other Business Schools (most of them very friendly to us).

We also know what is wrong with their (unresearched) pedagogy and the many deficiencies in their exam regimes. I agree size does not make anybody's quality that 'highest reachable standard' (though why you lump us with the University of Phoenix I do not know - the defects of their Learning Teams has been discussed on this Board, and with which I heartily agree with many of the critical comments), but public evidence of the different pedagogies is one good measure.

I said: "Some of the DL members of these "accreditation" agencies do not meet our quality standards; none of them surpass the standards of our exam regime."

I did not write: "And with EBS' 10,000+ mba students and open admission policies, they certainly don't need any extra self-marketing tools."

The "accreditation" you write about is not the same as ours. You have spotted that some UK Business Schools have the unoffical "accreditation" of AMBA, EQUIS and AACSB: what happens when they all get them? While I do not exclude at some time EBS joining such marketing agencies, or even joining in the "rankings" games played by newspapers, I do not think it is an issue for the moment, nor has it been in the past.

Our preference is to market as the toughest MBA to pass. When dealing with adultst it is not as difficult a proposition as those that market their MBAs as the easiest to pass but the most "accredited". Self affirmed "accreditation" is no substitute for quality of MBA output. Some students, employers and government regulators have not yet realised this truth. It is an empirical question of which I am prepared to let events establish which route is right.

 

Heriot Watt MBA/DBA

To be fair to Heriot Watt's MBA, it is certainly a reputable and accredited degree. Is AMBA, AACSB or EQUIS accreditation essential? It really depends on what's your objective.

If you wish to teach in a university that insists that you must hold an AACSB-accredited DBA or PhD, then you would need one. Such universities usually are American and AACSB accredited themselves. I have not seen any European or British university that insists that those who wish to teach in them must hold an AMBA-accredited MBA or Equis-accredited PhD/DBA. So, the main disadvantage of holding an accredited degree that isn't accredited by a business schools accreditation agency is you may not be able to find a full-time teaching job in many US business school with such a policy, but this is relevant to mainly those who are considering to do a doctorate, not MBA. But please not that it's not a relevant issue for those considering to do an MBA. In order to teach in such US universities, you need a doctorate anyway. And, it's possible for you to gain entry into an AACSB-accredited DBA (e.g. Manchester) with your Heriot Watt MBA.

Next, let me move on to address the question of the quality and reputation of Heriot Watt's MBA. Is it an issue? No. It is not an issue simply because it's so well-known for all the good things already. A simple Google search will list thousands of relevant reports about it being:
1) Royal Chartered
2) rigorous
3) established for more than a decade
4) one of the biggest
5) endorsed by Dr John Bear, an expert in distance learning programmes
6) led by a Stanfard senior academic
7) authored by several other academics from top Business Schools like INSEAD
8) extensively scrutinised, commented, and externally reviewed
9) sponsored by large MNCs
10) obtained by managers in large MNCs


Now, do we need to say more? If this high-profile MBA programme is of inferior quality and is sold to any Tom, Dick or Harry, dozens, if not hundreds, of reports would have emerged in the news. The reporters are hungry for news to report on. They are keener than us to sniff out any scandals in the higher education sector, especially those involving such a high-profile, globally marketed programme. But have we seen just one such report at all? Would the British government not be concerned if, indeed, this programme is but a scam? Would the universities that accept Heriot Watt graduates into their postgraduate programmes or faculties continue to do so if they have reason to suspect that this university is involved in selling degrees or marketing poor-quality programmes? In short, given the long history and high profile of this programme in the global market, I am very doubtful that it is of a poor quality or that it is unrecognised by other universities and employers.

But I think it is a valid point to raise that the Heriot Watt DBA is not AACSB accredited for the reason given above. Heriot Watt might want to look into this single accreditation for its DBA. EQUIS and AMBA aren't really must-haves. Neither is AACSB a must-have for its MBA. In fact, there are hundreds of AACSB accredited business schools, of which the majority aren't even top-notch. So I don't see why it is so essential to earn this for the MBA. But for those who wish to teach, holding a DBA with AACSB accreditation may help if they wish to teach in many AACSB accredited US business schools.

On the other hand, those who wish to teach in European or Asian business schools would find the traditional PhD more useful. So, Heriot Watt might consider to offer a PhD for these people. Since the DBA already contains a significant dissertation, which means that distance supervision of research must already be in place for it to offer it, it's not a big step to take from this point to offer also a PhD.

 

6 years between posts! I think that's a record!