Second Question for Henrik (Knightsbridge)

Is it ethical to sell honorary M.D. degrees?

Randy Miller Wrote:
Looking for a University
Please provide information on the awarding of honorary degrees.


Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 7:00 PM
Henrik Fyrst Kristensen wrote:

Dear Mr Miller,

Thank you for yours of today's date.

For honoris causa awards may be considered any such reputable individual who has been of service to the university. 'Service' is a rubber term, usually implying donation or practical/political assistance of some sort. In most instance, the donation route is the one taken.

The honoris causa award also depends on the recipient being a person of good reputation. This is the short version. There is a long version for internal use, this is not shared with the public, but serves as our guidelines on which to base the decision.

I hope this is of assistance, do let me know if this is an option you wish to pursue.

Best regards,

Henrik Fyrst Kristensen


From: Randy Miller
To: Henrik Fyrst Kristensen
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 6:56 PM

Dear Dr. Kristensen:

What is the next step in the process?

Randy Miller


Henrik Fyrst Kristensen wrote:

Dear Mr Miller,
If you will forgive a quick slash with a blunt knife, the next step is that the potential candidate (you, I take it?) proposes their side of the quid pro quo, i.e. let us know what they would be able
and prepared to offer up in exchange for the award.

Often, the contact is made by someone on behalf of someone else, hence my probe above as to whom the
potential candidate might be.

Best regards,

Henrik Fyrst Kristensen


From: Randy Miller
To: Henrik Fyrst Kristensen
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 3:28 AM
Subject: Re: Feedback

Under the appropriate circumstances, my friend would be willing to pay up to $25,000 euros for an honorary doctor of medicine degree.

Randy




From: "Henrik Fyrst Kristensen" <[email protected]> |
To: "Randy Miller" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Feedback
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:00:50 +0200

Dear Randy,

Thank you for yours of Wednesday, I was out of the office all day yesterday.

An honoris causa MD is available, and I can confirm that a donation of 25,000 Euro would be acceptable in this context. We would require sight of the incumbents vitae (identifying elements may be masked or removed, at this stage). This to ensure that incumbent may be considered suitable for the the award.

I hope this is of use, and look forward to hearing from you again soon.


Best regards,


Henrik Fyrst Kristensen

 

It's a most excellent question but I'm not really sure that it is actually Henrik's second question on this forum.

I'd like to know how he sells adjunct professors with his "turn-key" universities? Afterall, I thought slavery was generally a thing of the past.

 

I will acquit Henrik, on 3 grounds:

1) entrapment

2) Searching Google for "honorary doctor of medicine" shows that mainstream universities also confer them.

3) A con man who wanted to fool people into thinking he had an earned MD would be better off printing his own diploma than buying one that said honoris causa.

John Bear has written of the first MD conferred in the US, by Yale, in exchange for 50 valuable medical books. The joke at the time was that "MD" must stand for Multum donavit, Latin for "He donated much."

One thing I'm curious about, though. What would Henrik have spent the donation on?

 

Tuborg?

 

I find this troublesome. Do you think that most people would really know what this means:
M.D. h.c.

 

More M.D. diplomas?

 

I agree this smacks of entrapment, ( BUT ) I very much prefer that honorary MD degrees not be given. I'm disappointed in Henrik for this decision, a surprise. I hope he will return to explain this situation.

 

I'd be surprised if we hear from Henrik again, after all the BS, MS & PhD he's had to tolerate in a few short weeks. I'm sure he has better, and more serious, things to do with his time.
It would be sad if we didn't hear from him again.

 

Henrik is still reading this forum, at least.

 

Henrik has taken what was thrown at him very well.

Personally, I think some here want to serve up anyone that is associated with a unaccredited school in any fashion. I think that does not reflect well on this little society. It is one thing to be against unaccredited schools, but it is not necessary to treat someone associated with one like they are they are a crook, or have sinned against the educational god. I also think many people leave because this is a big turn off.

Scott

 

Henrik has indeed done very well. It would be very difficult for anyone to defend everything they have ever done or said. We as humans do make mistakes. I hope Henrik will continue to read the forum and to jump in with opinions and ideas whenever he feels like it. He isn't required to answer questions of the length and type previously offered, or any question for that matter. I for one hope he stays with us. Welcome to the forum and don't let the swim in the shark tank make you feel unwelcome, because you certainly are. I won't always agree with you, but I'll never prejudge or name call. I must agree with Scott that people who feel positive towards unaccredited schools take much abuse for giving their opinions. What is a personal, legal choice, becomes a reason for name calling and judgement that some will not accept or tolerate. Having a very thick skin is mandatory if you are to say anything good about the state approved schools.

 

I don't know how it could be entrapment when the Knightsbridge website invites inquiries:

"5) Honorary Degree programme: Awarded at Doctorate level only. Terms and conditions available upon request."

It is also referred to as a "program." A person could say "I graduated from an M.D. program."

Where is Henrick in this discussion?

 

But the fact remains that proprietors of non-accredited schools can't just sit back and expect everyone else to accept their enterprises a-priori. They have to be prepared to say something in behalf of their school, they have to be able to provide some evidence of its credibility. That's something that Henrik has so far steadfastly refused to do.

Look, if Henrik just wanted to participate in Degreeinfo like everyone else, he could have just logged on and started participating like anyone else. But that's not what happened. He had John Bear introduce him in the following manner:

John Bear introduces Henrik Fyrst Kristensen of Knightsbridge University

...I thought that an articulate spokesperson for a school that on one hand is on the Oregon list, and on the other seems to be doing a lot of things right in its and his native Denmark, could be a valuable addition.

Henrik's very first message contained these words:

As originally discussed with John, it was my hope that perhaps a named representative of an un-accredited institution could assist in adding a different perspective to some of the discussions here.

My point is that from his first introduction here, Henrik (and Bear) intended his presence to be something more than that of just another degreeinfo participant. He was, in Bear's words: KU's proprietor, an articulate spokesperson for a school. His purpose was to be, in his own words: a named representative of an un-accredited institution.

By his third post, Henrik was drawing a distinction between diploma mills and 'bona fide unaccredited", (associating the latter with "accredited/recognized"):

HFK: I can only concur that there is a disturbing number of outright diploma mills, and it is at least as disturbing that these seem to be far more effective at reaching the potential candidate than are either accredited/recognised institutions or bona fide unaccredited such. The only thing we can do, however, is to establish and maintain our own standards.

Unfortunately, when asked how the interested public, inluding prospective students and employers, can distinguish betwen "bona fide unaccredited" and degree mills, and how they can reassure themselves about an unknown school's standards, the response was not to attempt an answer, it was to avoid the issue.

What's more, Henrik's own Knightsbridge University is at least superficially undistinguishable from a degree-mill. Sadly, when asked to tell us about a few of those things that we are assured Knightsbridge is doing right in Denmark, all the birds started chirping that simply asking the question had violated our poor Henrik.

Apparently we are all supposed to embrace his enterprise on the basis of... nothing at all.

Sorry, but these are precisely the kind of questions that one should raise with the "proprietors", "spokespersons" and "representatives" of questionable non-accredited schools. They are questions that legitimate non-accedited schools must be prepared to answer.

 

All,

I posted a reply to this thread earlier in the day, but it doesn't show. Did anyone see this at all?

Haven't copied any of my previous posts, seems it could have been prudent.

Will try and re-create if it turns out nobody's seen it.

Comments, please?


Henrik

 

Henrik wrote:

> Did anyone see this at all?

I think not.

I have occasionally lost a message by absent-mindedly navigating to another page with my browser, thinking I had clicked on "Submit" when I had actually only hit "Preview". It is not pleasant.

 

Dear All,

Earlier today, I posted an eloquent response to the posts received under this thread. At the time there were 7 posts. Then I switched off, and now come back to see that my post isn't here!Wonder if somehow I managed to bung it under some other thread, but not sure how I could've done that.

In pretty much the same order and with reasonably similar phraseology, a response in several parts:

1) Particularly for Randy - it would have been most becoming had you advised me at the same time as publishing our correspondence here that you had done so. I do not spend my every waking moment perusing these pages.

2) Honorary doctorates are not the stuff of legend. For anyone to throw up their hands in horror at the concept reveals lack of background knowledge or proof of time travel.

3) There is no way anyone could mistake a KU honoris causa award for an earned one. The parchment makes the nature of the award absolutely clear. In my experience people do not try to pass off their honorary award as earned ones, it's certainly not something I've come across. This is not to say that it isn't done, but that sort of thing would surely require a monstrous ego coupled with rather limited intelligence. And under the circumstances I still cannot see how it could fool anyone.

4) Just how anyone would think that an honorary MD could be abused in any sense is beyond me, but then again I am regularly surprised by, in particular, some of the things John Bear reports.

5) The proceeds from the honoris causa award would have enabled us to offer fee reductions to the less monied candidate. Tuborg is a fine drink, although I much prefer Budvar.

6) 'Entrapment' is not an issue here. We directly invite interested parties to get in touch to discuss honoris causa awards. The issue as it relates to Randy is that of spurious intent, followed by the publishing of our correspondence. I'll leave the considerations on his morals to others, suffice to say that there is nothing in what he has shared with this audience which in my view is odious.


Henrik

 

Henrik wrote:

> The proceeds from the honoris causa award would have
> enabled us to offer fee reductions to the less monied
> candidate. Tuborg is a fine drink, although I much prefer
> Budvar.

"Financial Assistance
Knightsbridge College does not offer any assistance in terms of contact with sponsors, and does not offer any scholarships or other forms of direct fee reduction"
-- http://www.knightsbridgecollege.com/fees.html

Dear Henrik,

Did policy change between the writing of these two statements? If so, when?

 

(Henrik e-mailed me hinting that Knightsbridge University and Knightsbridge College are separate institutions.)

Dear Henrik,

Can you tell us something about the relationship between Knightsbridge University and Knightsbridge College? Is Knightsbridge College still in operation? When were they founded? What is the difference between their missions? Why do their Websites not have links to each other?

Cheers,
Mark I.

 

Visit Topsy-Turvy Land to read "why" the L.I.A.R. and Millard Fillmore diplomas (honorary, and not M.D.s) offered by Dr Bear for less than $100 each are "dishonest", while the €25,000 honorary M.D. offered by Henrik is not.
http://www.collegehints.com/boards/showthread.php?p=4938#post4938