I posted a question before, and did not hear much, and since decision time is limited, I thought I would ask again. Does anybody have information / ranking / discussion on Grenoble's DBA program? If you have any questions, please reference this site: http://www.denvermullican.com/FAQ.html Thanks,
Kristie: From this post, I take it that you are still looking for a program because of all the politics with Brunel University and the conferred degree issue. This may not be the advice you want to hear but have you thought about taking some time off to see what new programs could come in the future? New programs are being developed all the time and it would be unfortunate if you jumped into a program and within 6 months to a year a better program opened up. Just a thought and sorry I could not help you with this particular post. Duff
I really do want to get started, but understand your point. Right now here are the three choices. 1. Brunnell / Henley (I haven't heard from them about AACSB, but I have from AACSB, and the program is not acccredited. Though from this board it seems highly regarded.) 2. ESG Grenoble (In the prcess of AACSB accreditation, but can not find anyone on the board that will comment on them). 3. Wait Last resort. It seems strange to me that this board is silent on an issue, I have never seen this. I loaned my Bear's guide out to a friend, so can't look them up, rats!
Kristie- I am going to say the same thing to said to me. If you want to teach go with a AACSB school. To me that means that you will probably have to wait. Waiting might not be a bad thing, you never know what can come up. Good luck with your decision.
Go for Henley The advice you are getting is probably sensible for the US situation regarding the need for the AACSB rubber stamp but things have come to a sorry pass if this means you decline going to Henley. I have no axe to grind regarding Henley - they are rivals of EBS and have sometimes been unpleasant towards us, hence my constant affirmations of respect for them are one-way -sometimes you have to rise above irrations to speak the truth. But the notion that any Business School in the US would turn you down for a faculty appointment because your DBA came from Henley is so mindboggling that I am lost for words. Henley is one of the finest Business Schools in the world and its programmes are world class and it scores better worldwide than many AASCB Schools in the US. Its "non-accreditation" by AACSB is no discredit on Henley but a function of the fact that its does not yet have a Royal Charter that covers doctoral programmes (under urgent application) and temporarily it uses the flag of convenience of a nearby fully accredited British University, Brunel, with a Royal Charter for doctoral work, as it used to use for its MBA programmes (fully accredited by AACSB - the first to be so in Britain). This is only a temporary situation and by no means other than that. Within a short time it will be fully AACSB "accredited" for your doctoral programme. Brunel is not "accredited" by AACSB for the good reason that it does not have international ambitions to recruit in the US, unlike Henley which runs a large international DL programme for its MBA. AACSB is a mainly US "accreditation" and has little weight outside the US. The insular nature of US academe, which has to discriminate between quality US schools and a lot of rubbish ones, when extended to British Universities is somewhat disappointing (to say insulting would, perhaps, be too extreme, though I must say your country's insensitivity to non-US universities is sometimes hard to bear in countries that have been longer in the academic frontline of quality than the US has existed - remember Glasgow University, founded in 1495?). I advise you to go ahead with Henley because of its international stature (given that most of the University doctoral programmes in Europe are not AASCB) and the fact that Henley will be AASCB by the time you graduate. If you can get into Henley and can graduate that will say much for you.
Well, it's a unique situation, I don't think any of us were aware that Henley used Brunel to confer the degree. If you have no doubt that you want/need a AACSB doctorate, then I would follow Professor Kennedy's advice and go with Henley, since he seems to be sure that the Royal Charter will be granted by the time you finish your degree (though I'd get it in writing that the post-Royal Charter degree will be from Henley and not Brunel). Another thought would be to re-examine your want/need for a AACSB doctorate. If your goal is to become tenured faculty at a AACSB school, then you really do need it. If you're looking for a position at a RA business school, I'm not sure if the AACSB accreditation of Henley would off-set you having to explain how you earned a degree from a British school while living in California (just a thought, I'm obviously not DL-biased or ignorant but many still are). Bruce
Just a couple of clarifications, Bruce. I agree that most members may not have known of the Brunel connection with Henley but those in the UK did and I tried to explain its wholly commendable circumstances. The new regime that took over the rather staid Administrative Staff College at Henley (John is right it has a superb rural location), led by the charasmatic Professor Tom Kempner in 1971, from the then excellent Bradford Management School, turned it round and this led to Henley Management College (now under new management since Tom retired). Henley has always been ahead of the curve. Its handicap for many years was its non-Royal Charter status as it was not a university, hence it used the association with Brunel to have its MBA accredited. (I taught economics and negotiation at Brunel at that time). Indeed, it tried an affiliation with the Open University (which failed) and published its courses in management individually before they collectively formed its MBA, hence its foray beyond the curve from nthe beginning. Recently it was awarded a Royal Charter for master degrees only (it having no bachelor degree students) and has now applied for doctoral programmes. Meanwhile, ahead of the curve again, it has arranged for them to be validated by Brunel University. Hence, Kirstie may rest assured that the application is to extend the Royal Charter to doctoral programmes; not to have them validated by Brunel. The degree certificates will be issued by Henley when it has the legal authority to do so. Will it get an extention to doctoral programmes, such as the DBA? Yes. But will it get AACSB? Almost certainly given that AACSB awarded that status for Henley's MBA - among the first UK Colleges to be recognised as a centre of excellence by AACSB. I have explained why Brunel does not want or seek AACSB. Thanks for your support for my advice.
Professor Kennedy, I want to thank you for the posting and explanation. The one quote that does hit home from your posting is about the ignorance of the US about European degrees, and even mine in the past (yes I caught that gab) . I do realize the tainted view I once had, and the tainted view that MANY US schools have, and now am with the reality of the situtation, though very unfair. I do think that the accrediation issues will work themselves out, and that Henley will grant their degrees in DBA's. I just need to check the timing. Now it will come down to the two different schools reputations, support to their students, structure, etc. As for ESC Genoble, I have had a wonderful experience. I have spoken to the Dean, been given a great deal of information, and every question answered timely, politely, and just a great warm and fuzzy feeling with this group of people. As for Henley, I have had some struggles. I received 4 days notice for an interview ($3400 ticket), then a notice of a reschedule to the following week ($100 change fee). I explained the pricing of tickets, due to the late notice, and then the change, and I think I offended them, though I did not mean to. They said they did not realize the costs, which worried me again, since they do have students in the US. Also, my asking of AACSB accrediation was another issue that I am sure I was not looked favorably on. Like one posting said earlier, this was like calling Oxford and asking them if they were accredited, a bit a slap in the face. I realize this now, but I still needed to ask the question. Being in another country, there will need to be great support and structure, and thus far I am a bit worried during the application process, but maybe that will change when a person actually becomes a student. But this is a big gamble. Also, the Henley program starts in September, and to get a reasonable airline ticket, it will need to be made soon. No information is assembled yet on dates or content (and there is pre-work needed, not sure of the amount). Grenoble has already published the dates, session descriptions, etc. to their website for review and planning purposes in November. I have the interview with Henley, and will see then, and though it might not be wise of me, I want to have a frank discussion of both my research interests and my abilities, but also of the program structure and my expectations of the university I will be attending. I hope I don't offend anyone, I would feel honored to get in, but want to make sure that it is a fit on both sides, making a win/win.
I was just looking on the AACSB web site, and I did not find ESC-Grenoble. I found under Business: ESSEC Business School - Paris (France) ESCP-EAP European School of Management, Paris/Oxford/Madrid/Berlin (France) and under candidacy: Ecole Superieure de Commerce et de Management (ESCEM) (Business) (France) Then looking at the ESC-Grenoble web site and clicking through from AACSB to the above schools I could not find where it was AACSB accrdited.
Kristie, How about contacting Denver via direct email. Looks like he has experience with the school you are talking about. Please see below: mbagraduate: AAS - Computer Programming BSIT - University of Phoenix MBA - American Interncontinental University Graduate 7/12/2003 PHD - Considering Northcentral ____________________ Denver Member Registered: Feb 2001 Location: New Orleans, LA 70123 Posts: 65 You may want to look at Doctor of Business Administration (DBA) programs. I am in my second year in a distance at a brick and mortar school (ESC Grenoble) and am having a great time. My fellow students have had no problems getting adjunct positions at traditional schools and for those of us who are more interested in consulting – the program has been ideal. The program is in France, but the professors come to the U.S. each year (next visit is July 17-28 in New Orleans) and we spend a week in France every November. The rest is via videoconference/webcam/phone. This is a European format, which means that you are given a supervisor and most of your work is done with this person. Cost is $8400 per year and the program is three years. We are accredited by the Conference of Grand Ecoles and EQUIS http://www.efmd.be/equis/list.htm By the way, there is an excellent PowerPoint on the AACSB website comparing EQUIS and AACSB www.aacsb.edu/conferences/events/ha...C02/Shenton.ppt There are many DBA programs besides and I would encourage you to review this site before deciding on where you want to spend the next 3-7 years Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 05-30-2003 08:46 PM
Denver is my contact at Grenoble, along with the dean. I wanted to get some independant opinions. I can't say enough about Denver and the process they have lined up for their program.
I will be glad to discuss the program with anyone that is interested. For the next two days (July 21-22) our program director – Dimitris Assimakopoulos – will also be in New Orleans. If anyone would like to discuss the program with him let me know and I well set up a phone interview. Denver
