Accreditation Trick???

I am a bit confused, and need this board's expert advice. I have applied to Henley Management college, http://www.henleymc.ac.uk/ , and this school is AACSB accredited. In their business department, they offer a DBA, I have been given some information now that is worrisome.

"The official degree is given from Brunel University, which is not AACSB accredited."

I am confused. If they degree is a Henley degree, why would it say as a VERY small * on their last page *Degree grantor Brunel University.

I have e-mailed the school for the answer, but have been offered an interview, and now don't know if I have been tricked…….I thought I was covered, the school is AACSB, the department offering the program is AACSB......

If anybody can look at this and let me know, that would be great.

 

I think the most definitive answer would be from AACSB. I'd call or e-mail them and ask if the Henley/Brunel degree would be considered AACSB accredited.


Bruce

 

I did - but I didn't like the answer....

"Greetings, Kristie. It appears that the program is Brunel University's. Brunel U is not accredited by AACSB - so if the degree is granted by Brunel,
it is not from an AACSB accredited institution. Thank you for inquiring."

 

Well, Henley's Website does say: "The College awards only two types of degree, MBA and MSc"
(http://www.henleymc.ac.uk/henleymc02.nsf/pages/degreeaward)

I don't see why they are so reticent about their Brunel connection, though. AACSB-accredited or not, a Brunel degree is nothing to be ashamed of.

(The professor who supervised my Master's degree had a Ph.D. from Brunel.)

 

Not a Trick, BUT!

It is not a trick, but it is fairly common in UK and other European schools, where a particular school does the program, but the degree is offically awarded from another school.

You might want to getin touch with Professor Kennedy or triggersoft for a better explanation.

 

Kristie,

If Brunel instead of Henley will award the degree (DBA), your doctorate is not AACSB-accredited (You have already received an answer from AACSB). Henley MBA degrees are definitely AACSB-accredited because the degrees (MBAs) are awarded by Henley. AACSB accreditation usually does not extend to an extension school of a business school that is accredited by AACSB (or to another institution).

Ike

 

Brunel is a respected university but Kristie is looking for a business school that has AACSB accreditation.

Ike

 

Ike is right, I do need AACSB. I was to travel to England next week.... my how things change so quickly.

I am waiting for the answer from Helney, but know the answer...,

 

The Henley-Brunel connection has been in place for more than 50 years. There is surely nothing either new or secretive about it. It arose because Henley (which, incidentally, has one of the most beautiful campuses I've ever seen) did not have a Royal Charter for its first half century, hence the Brunel deal. But now they do have a Royal Charter, so I am quite confused as to why they still have the doctoral arrangement with Brunel, rather than granting their own.

 

Hi Kristie,

Unless AACSB is needed for your own particular reasons, I really don't understand the problem. However, maybe that's because I'm a Brit and this is a U.S. accreditation issue.

For me a DBA from Henley (even if Brunel awards it) would say more than an AACSB DBA as Henley is regularly featured in lists of the top 100 business schools in the world. I only ever hear AACSB mentioned on this board or by people who say that they want to crack the U.S. business degree market. It doesn't seem to be that important in the rest of the world.

"[AACSB] Accreditation is a process of voluntary, non-governmental review of educational institutions and programs. AACSB accreditation represents the highest standard of achievement for business schools worldwide. Institutions that earn accreditation confirm their commitment to quality and continuous improvement through a rigorous and comprehensive peer review. AACSB International accreditation is the hallmark of excellence in management education." (Taken from the AACSB website.)

Henley has chosen to get AACSB accreditation for the degrees it awards but Brunel hasn't. Big deal! Remember AACSB Accreditation is voluntary.

In the UK there is a government agency that check the quality of courses offered. These reports are publicly available. Their last report for Henley is here http://www.qaa.ac.uk/revreps/instrev/Henley/remit.htm. O.K. its a little old 1998-1999 but it does mention the DBA.

Why doesn't Henley offer their own DBA and get it AACSB accredited? I don't know - but two ideas could be:

1) what's the process of AACSB accreditation for DBA's - is it worth the hassle
2) what exactly does Henley's statutes allow them to do

Hope this helps and all the best for whatever you decide to do.

Brendan

 

Kristie,
I think you have missed a post back in Jan 2003 by telfax

"Henley it has to be!
The Henley Management College DBA was the first DBA to be offered in Europe and has an excellent pedigree. In my view, it is also the hardest DBA to earn. There is 18 months course work and portfolio development to complete, nearly all of which is related to the 80,000 words supervised research thesis (dissertation) you'll have to eventually submit. The degree is awarded by Brunel University since Henley only has degree-granting powers of its own at the master's degree level at present. It has an application pending to award its own research degrees. Along with the Cranfield and Strathclyde DBA, students have to do more work than most other DBA programmes in the UK and USA.

Students get to meet many fellow students from all over the world during the short residency sessions and the College must have one of the most wonderful locations in the world set in a manor house by the side of the River Thames. The place is extremely friendly, students get a great deal of personal attention and nearly 70% of DBA graduates end up teaching full-time or part-time in higher education institutions all over the world. The average age of students is around 35-45 years (some are younger and some much older) and many hold very senior positions in industry. It has a number of North Americans on the programme, candidates from South East Asia, Germany, France, Austria and, of course, the UK.

How do I know all of this? I used to be on the full-time HMC faculty and remain an Associate Fellow teaching and supervising/examining doctoral theses, part-time, on the DBA programme!

The requirements for getting the degree are not to be under estimated but the selection process is extensive and once you are accepted, providing you put in the work, you will get the degree. There is an exit stage at the end of Part One (18-24 months) of the programme for candidates not making the grade or who are finding the programme too tough or for people who just find out they don't have the time to commit to the programme. A Postgraduate Advanced Diploma is awarded to candidates who successfully complete the first 18-24 months and decide to exit. The College is thinking of turning this diploma into a master's degree.

Hope this helps.

'telfax'
"

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?threadid=7301

 

Kristie,
You had also mentioned that the dean at CSU would not consider a doctorate at this school, though it is AACSB accredited. May be another reason is he knew that the degree would be granted by Brunel University !

"Though it made a bit of a debate with the need for the AACSB accreditation requirement, I chose Henley Management College. They seem to have a great reputation, are AACSB accredited, and have a limited residency. I also have chosen a topic for my dissertation, which parallels a graduate this semester. I have spoken to several of their faculty members, and the President of my company and the Dean of my Master's program wrote my letters of recommendation, so I hope I have a strong enough application to be considered.

Unfortunately, I met with the dean at CSU and he said he would not consider a doctorate at this school, though it is AACSB accredited. He said the ratio of doctoral student to full time faculty member should be around 5:1 (5 full time faulty to every doctoral student!). We went though the site, and it seemed that they have about 5 full time strategic management professors total at the school. I am not sure of the class size, but I am sure it is more than 1, which would not grant me consideration at CSU for a full time faculty position.

But, like I said, this forum has taught me that people, once educated on accreditation and content of programs, can change their minds. I hope this degree will get my foot in the door, and my performance will do the rest. Also, there are other schools in the area."

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8561

 

IIRC, the AACSB doesn't accredit doctoral programs.

This is similar to the J.D.-to-L.L.M. situation. The ABA doesn't accredit L.L.M. programs, but we were being told that one path to sitting for the Bar Exam was to take a J.D. from an unaccredited school, then follow it up with an L.L.M. at an ABA-accredited school. The J.D. program is ABA-accredited, but not the L.L.M. Well, with AACSB, the bachelor's and MBA programs might be AACSB-accredited, but not the DBA. Or have I misinterpreted what I've read here over time?

 

I agree that AACSB does not accredit doctoral programs. What I was saying is that since Brunel bachelor's and MBA programs are not AACSB-accredited, Brunel DBA degree may not meet Kristie's needs. Kristie wants a doctorate from a business school that has AACSB accreditation.

 

Has any graduate of the London School of Economics ever mention that their degree is awarded by the University of London? I only have known one and he certainly did not.

Evaluating top British schools by American standards is nothing short of ridiculous.

In my undergraduate business degree, the faculty was a United Nations cross-section, as it should be. Any school that precludes international credentials, recognizing only a home grown standard, is denying themselves the opportunity to be a real university with an outward focus.

 

Hi Kristie

It never rains but it pours. First the delays and now this. But let's keep a sense of perspective.

John Bear is almost correct. The Brunel connection is quite long but more like 30 years not 50. Brunell was formed as a univeristy (previously it was an advanced technical college) relatively late and when Henley Administrative Staff College (a place where senior managers from the Commonwealth and government attended as a sub-university independent college) appointed a new staff (mainly from Bradford University) to take Henley to its next stage, it formed an association with Brunel University (nearby close to London Heathrow Airport).

Brunel, as a Royal Charter University, offers all levels of degrees from bachelors to PhD level. It is a fully accredited British University. When Henley began its MBA programme (previously it had tried an association with the UK's Open University but for various reasons it broke up and the OU went on and opened its own Business School) and its MBA was awarded under Brunel's Royal Charter and was for some years until Henley was awarded it own Royal Charter. But the Charter was restricted to Masters level because Henley Management College is not a full university with all the courses and faculty that that entails.

Henley, as ever, ambitious, determined and venturous, started its DBA programme and meanwhile apply for the extension of its Royal Charter to cover doctoral level degrees. In time, a year perhaps, Henley will gets an extention for its DBA. Meanwhile they are awarded by Brunel under its Royal Charter, a convenience that worked for both institutions for the MBA.

Henley's approval by AACSB was for its MBA, which it did not have much trouble gaining and it will not have much trouble for its DBA. Byt the time your DBA is completed Henley will inside AACSB. As that is important to you I should stick with your plans to go to Henley. You will not regret it. Meanwhile you will achieve a great learning experience from your doctoral work.

 

What??? Maybe I am missing something. According to this statement, a department with 20 doctoral students would be required to have 100 full time faculty member in that department. Is this correct? Can you give me any examples of schools that actually meet this requirement?

 

Had trouble finding stats breakdown but here are some numbers.

University of Alberta - 32,248 students - about 3,000 academic staff - 1,115 graduate degrees awarded.

I am guessing that a maximum of 200 would be doctorates and that is pushing it.

That would be one graduate for each 15 academic staff - if they averaged 3 years that would be one student for each 5 academic staff. A little guesswork but easily within the range.

Some of the R/A doctor factories graduate more doctors than a 32,000 student university.

 

kristie:
If Henley is expected to receive approval to award DBA in a year or so, you may go ahead and register. After all, the program will take between three and five years to complete.

Ike

 

Wow, thanks for all of the wonderful postings, here is the response from Henley, which makes me more confused.

-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: DBA Application

I am trying to confirm the DBA degree accreditation. I have reviewed material that states that Henley Management College is AACSB accredited, but the research degrees are not Henley awarded, rather a Brunel University degree.

Can you tell me if the DBA program in which I have applied is AACSB accredited?

Thank you,

-----Original Message-----
Dear Kristie

Would you be available to be interviewed by (names removed), on either the afternoon of Monday 21st July or any
time Tuesday 22nd?

In answer to your other question - yes Henley Management College is AACSB accredited.

I look forward to hearing from you with regards to possible interview dates.

Best Wishes

Doctoral Secretary/Administrator
____________________

OK, two items of concern. First, I thought I asked the question just right, but the answer I don't think answered my question? Your thoughts?

I read a couple of postings that knew about this program, but not a direct answer, IS IT AACSB accredited.

Where do the transcripts come from, what school name comes on the degree.

Also, this request makes me travel in three days, and I don't have much time to determine it.....

One more thing, I didn't mean to stir up debate about AACSB. There is a new Dean now at CSUS. I spoke with him and he said the only hard requirement is AACSB. The ratio is not. I spoke to my "mentor" of sorts and he said the AACSB is critical. Also, my employer will only reimburse AACSB. I know that AACSB is not the most critical to some, but in my mind a need.... and that is why this clarification is so critical.

I also appreciate the screening processes. It has been a long road, and not sure what to do. I will call them late tonight / early this morning to try to talk to somebody about it.

I also need to get my flight, all in three days. What a turn around.

Any help, again, is always appreciated.