Regional/National - Royal Charter/Validated

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Starkman, May 27, 2003.

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  1. Starkman

    Starkman New Member

    Hey all,

    I need to know something here.
    If the UK's Royal Charter accreditation is the equivalent of our RA, is the UK's Validation the same as our National Accrediting?

    Thanks,

    Starkman
     
  2. MarkIsrael@aol.com

    [email protected] New Member

  3. Scott Henley

    Scott Henley New Member

    College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia.

    It grants its degrees on the same authority as Oxford, Cambridge and most other British universities. Of course, Glasgow awards its degree on the authority of a Papal Bull.
     
  4. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Several Canadian universities, including the University of Toronto (King's College), started out with Royal Charters. In probably all cases, this has been replaced or modified by provincial legislation.

    I am surprised that only one American university has a Royal Charter. If one checked out schools previously called King's or Queen's College, they may find more.
     
  5. Starkman

    Starkman New Member

    But . . . But . . .

    But . . . what about my question? :(
     
  6. MarkIsrael@aol.com

    [email protected] New Member

    Don't despair, Starkman. I'm sure someone from the UK will chime in soon.

    Dennis Ruhl wrote:

    > I am surprised that only one American university has a Royal
    > Charter.


    Well, I wasn't counting the schools listed at http://www.oxfordeducationalnetwork.org/members.htm .

    College of William and Mary doesn't seem to say "only" on their own Website. But I assume the UN got the text from them. Maybe they used to claim to be the "only", but then discovered somebody else.
     
  7. MarkIsrael@aol.com

    [email protected] New Member

    Scott Henley wrote:

    > Of course, Glasgow awards its degree on the authority of a
    > Papal Bull.


    I'll have to get my glasses checked. I could have sworn you wrote something about Glasgow's accepting payment for tuition with PayPal.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2003
  8. Mike Albrecht

    Mike Albrecht New Member

    IF I remeber correctly the answer is no.

    The Royal charter conveys the right to grant degrees, and the validation is a measure of the rigor and/or quality of the courses.

    If equating it to anything it would be closer to the US News tier ranking, but on a more formal scale being done by a geovernment agency (does not mean it is better or worse).
     
  9. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Columbia University aka King's College appears to have been founded by Royal Charter.
     
  10. Professor Kennedy

    Professor Kennedy New Member

    I am not sure what the distinction is between UK government accreditation by Royal Charter (subject to constant review and it can be revoked - Cardiff came close a few years ago) and 'validation'.

    UK universities must maintain a quality standard as they are all subject to regular inspections by the Quality Assurance Agency (consisting of a mixture of UK civil servants and peer reviewers from other UK universities).

    Heriot-Watt and EBS is due an inspection in late 2003 or early 2004. They inspected the nearby Queen Margaret University College in Edinburgh a month or more ago and cancelled two of their degree programmes having found massive undetected exam fraud.

    I have not heard that a British University has had its Bachelor and Master/PhD degrees not validated by US RAs (though Heriot-Watt had some 'difficulties' in one of the US RAs for a number of years because the CEO apparently had difficulty with understanding the English language - fortunately now sorted). The others 'validated' our degrees without fuss.

    As for National Accrediting, I know not what that means. Heriot-Watt has recognition from the US DoE (and the requisite number) for Stafford Loan purposes, as do many other UK universities (if they bothered to apply to the DoE - we did because many of our US MBA students asked us to).
     
  11. telefax

    telefax Member

    Starkman,

    It is my understanding that there is no parallel between Regional Accreditation vs. National Accreditation in the US, and the relationship between Royally Chartered Universities in the UK and the other programs they validate.

    Take as an example the London Bible College. It is not a royally chartered university. However, in the opinion of Brunel University, a royally chartered university, university level work is conducted at London Bible College. Therefore, Brunel "validates" LBC's programs and degrees by actually issuing the degrees to the graduates. Therefore, if I pursued a program through LBC, I would wind up with a degree from Brunel University. This does not look to me like a difference in quality, only a different system.

    In the US, Universities and Colleges may apply for accreditation from one of the six regional accrediting bodies, or one of the many national accrediting bodies. The US Department of Education must approve these accrediting bodies. Many people believe that regionally accredited schools are superior to nationally accredited schools. While that is a frequently debated matter, the issue at stake is a difference in quality.

    Stark, I hope that's helpful. To everyone in the UK, hope I didn't misconstrue your system.
     
  12. Starkman

    Starkman New Member

    DG1,

    Thanks very much.
    Per your post . . .

    If I went through London Bible College and graduated, would I then have a Royal Chartered accrediated degree because of the Brunel validation? (And this is really the heart of my first posted question. Both London Bible College and the Open Theological College (University of Glouchestershire) are where I'll go. I want the BA Honors degree to be without (too much) trouble if I consider a Masters here in the states with an RA University.)

    Thanks,

    Starkman
     
  13. telefax

    telefax Member

    Starkman,

    You ask, "If I went through London Bible College and graduated, would I then have a Royal Chartered accrediated degree because of the Brunel validation?"

    It is my understanding that your degree would actually be issued by the royally chartered Brunel University itself, not London Bible College.

    The real experts to consult on this topic, short of contacting the admissions people at the schools in question, are Ed Komoszewski, Jason Baker, and Cory Seibel. Hopefully, they will chime in on this topic.
     
  14. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    I knew somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody who.......


    Many years ago somebody I knew from the Montreal area told me that graduating from a certain college (name??) in Quebec long in the past earned a degree from Oxford (the real one). I imagine they wrote the Oxford exams.
     
  15. Professor Kennedy

    Professor Kennedy New Member

    Royal Charters, again

    If London Bible College degree level programmes are validated by Brunel Univeristy as is suggested, it is a Brunel University degree that the student will earn. LBC cannot award degrees because it doe snot have a Royal Charter; Brunel University has a Royal Charter.

    Analagously, up until recently Henley MBA degrees were awarded by Brunel University, not Henley, because Henley at that time did not have a Royal Charter. It was a prestigious Management College (formerly Administrative Staff College, serving, largely, the UK civil service).

    Henley subsequently obtained a Royal Charter enabling it to award its own MBAs (of which it was a pioneer in distance learning from the early 1980s). However, Henley's DBA degree is awarded by Brunel University not Henley because Henley's Royal Charter does not cover doctoral programmes - yet! I would wager that Henley before long would be able to award DBAs in its own right.

    En passant, London Business School degrees used to be awarded by London University until LBS was awarded its own Royal Charter recently. Similar arrangements exist in the UK where the teaching institution is not yet up to the standard of having its own Royal Charter, but is probabtionary, and the degrees the students are awarded are from a Royal Charter UK University.
     
  16. Starkman

    Starkman New Member

    DG1,

    It was our good man Ed Komoszewski who referred me to London Bible College. Haven't talked with him in a while. Will have to do so.

    But yes, it does make sense that the validating university would award the accreditation.

    Thanks very much,

    Starkman
     

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