Is a Bachelor Degree useless?

Let's pose the same question for a Bachelors degree.

Fifty years ago, a Bachelors degree was gold because so few people had them (in the United States). However, many people have a Bachelors degree in today's marketplace. Is the Bachelors degree losing the utility and the luster that it had in bygone days?

As an example, 50 years ago, you could be a medical doctor or a lawyer with a Bachelors degree, but not so today!!! Are other Bachelors degrees going down the same path as the medical and legal professions?

Thoughts?

 

Viewed strictly from a resume marketing perspective, a bachelor's degree is a only valuable if you do not have one.

 

The bachelor's degree, like the master's and the doctorate, is a "stand alone" degree. While there is some overlap between the bachelor's and master's in certain disciplines (like business), they are two seperate activities. The master's once much more a part of the doctorate and earned along the way, has evolved into the degree you "get to," not going on to the academics' degree the doctorate.

But the associate's is none of these. It was designed as a sort of consolation prize for people attending junior college, but did not go on for a degree at university. (I know, the master's is sometimes a consolation for a failed attempt at a Ph.D., but this is an exception, not the rule. For the most part, it stands on its own.)

The associate's is just the first half of a bachelor's (with some exceptions, especially in some technical and vocational areas).

The bachelor's remains the credential we mean when we say someone has "a degree." Not the associate's. And not the master's. The bachelor's.

That said, it is well-documented and discussed that there is "credential creep" going on. For example, nurses used to be trained in hospitals. Then they went to stand-alone nursing schools. Then the community colleges took over, offering associate's degrees that led to licensing as an RN. But now it is the BSN that rules; associate's-degree-level nurses are considered less-capable. The MSN is quite normal, and we're seeing nurses going on for a variety of research and practioners' doctorates.

The bachelor's is still "the" degree. As wannaJD implied, one won't knock down any doors. But not having one will keep some doors shut.

 

"The associate's is just the first half of a bachelor's"

You don't seem to have a clear understading of associate's degrees or the value they have in today's market. An associate's degree has specific course requirements that must be met. It is not simply half a bachelor's degree. In fact, one usually has to do more difficult work in order to achieve the associate's, as many bachelor's degrees have many credits of elective filler. Employers want something more than just a high school diploma and the associate's indicates many things beyond that. And there are fields where an associate's degree holder can find starting salaries in the $45,000 - $50,000 range, which will be fine for some people until they finish up their bachelor's.

 

I think to put the value of a bachelor degree into perspective only 17% of the US population over 25 has a 4 year degree and 8.6% with a graduate degree.

These are year 2000 numbers as reported in the 2003 Britannica Book of the Year (Events of 2002).

Those that only have a high school education are 33.1% and those with some post-secondary (not bachelor but would include associate degrees) is 25.4%.

John

 

Gee, what a nice thing to say. Not.

I think I made it clear that there were exceptions to the "half a bachelor's" comment. As it is, indeed, half a bachelor's, one would expect it to have course requirements. I never said associate degrees did not.

I also didn't comment on money to be earned by holders of the associate's, except to note that in some technical and vocational fields, it might have some value.

There's no real need to toss away my 24 years working in education and training (not to mention two bachelor's, a master's, a doctorate on the way, and two--gasp!--associate's degrees!--just because you disagree with something I said. I guess one could point to someone's 6 posts and suggest one does some participating before getting right to criticizing. But would it help?

 

I agree. There's a difference between:

1. Community college transfer curricula that are intended to fulfill the first two years of a four year bachelors program. These are precisely half of a bachelors degree. And...

2. Associates degree curricula which are stand-alone in nature, intended to give a student a set of technical skills that can be used in practical applications.

The first is constructed around the courses that are required to partially complete another school's bachelors curriculum, providing all of the required prerequisite courses and so on. The second is constructed around skills that are in demand on the job, regardless of whether they are required in bachelors programs. There's a lot of overlap, but each model is optimized to achieve different ends.

I guess the question here is which of these models most associates degree programs resemble. My CCSF example illustrates that at that particular community college at least, associates degrees are largely employment-skill-set oriented. The transfer (half-bachelors) curricula at CCSF no longer involve associates degrees at all.

It might be interesting to look at the websites of a representative set of community colleges and actually observe what kind of associates degree programs they offer. If I'm feeling ambitious and have some time on my hands, I might do it.

 

AA

A degree's worth is only what you need it for. If the career of your choice accepts AA's, then why go all the way to the Phd? Personally, 99.9% of the jobs I have applied for say specifically, "Minimum Requirement: Bachelor's Degree from an Accredited Institution." So I knew there was no way I could get an AA and be successful. An AA is great if that is what you need. But most good jobs require a Bachelor's and you will not get that far with an AA.

 

What percentage of the US population hold doctorates?

 

The number of degrees one has or the number of posts one has does not mean the person has valid knowledge with which to answer questions regarding degrees.

 

A bachelor's degree today does not carry the same clout as it did 30 years ago. It has today become a pre-requisite degree for law school, business school, medical school, for CPA exams and the military (officer training programs).
There are more people today with bachelor degrees than 30 years ago. The number of people with post graduate degrees may have slightly increased in recent years. Attending graduate school is a very time consuming and expensive proposition. I would estimate that less than 33% of all Bachelor degree graduates go on to graduate school.

 

Keen insight!

 

Short Term Goal

I am by no means very knowledgeable when it comes to the utility of the different levels of college degrees. I do know that someone that I am working with, whom had no college at all before she began perusing this board and enrolling into courses, is only 15 semester hours from her associates degree. If she had to go straight from zero (0) to 120 in order to earn her first degree...I am certain that she would have quit a long time ago!!

I am inclined to agree with Rich Douglas! Jessica Lani (my friend who is working towards her bachelors) needs the consolation prize of the Associates Degree on the wall because I know that without it...what good is that 10 months and $6,000.00 that she has spent so far!

Also, believe it or not...her job is really happy to see that she is pursuing her education. For every grade that she earns over a "C" they will pay 75-100% for the course (Tuition Reimbursement). She may not receive promotions for the associates but its kinda like she is with the tuition reimbursement....free college for courses with B's and better.

I think it all boils down to what are an individual's personal goals...and how does and AA, BA, Et. al fit into those goals.


That's my "2" Cents


Mike Gibbs

AA Burlington College, NJ
BA TESC
MSAS SMSU
JD Chapman (on hold for a while)

 

I think a BA will be like a high school diploma in Business (for Professional positions). It is the entry requirement, which was not the case just a decade or two ago. A great number of exceptions were made in the past for "life experience" in lieu of a BA, but I don't think that will be the case in the future, since the flexibility is there for anyone to get a degree if they want it.

 

Specialized Degrees for the Future!

I very much agree with this, while I acknowledge that there are exceptions and there always will be.

I foresee the day when the American marketplace is flooded with too many college graduates and they will become a dime a dozen. When that day arrives, then the marketplace will be looking for specialized degrees, such as in IT or whatnot, in order to get hired or to get ahead. I also foresee a day when jobs become scarcer, except in specialized technical fields.

When the marketplace is flooded with Bachelors degrees, the perceived value of the degree will be lessened, though to some degree, it will always remain valuable. Just ask the person who doesn't have one.

Subsequent to the above, will Masters degrees ever become super-valuable in the marketplace? While Masters degrees will always have some value, to answer the question, no, I don't think so -- unless it is in a specialized concentration that is in need, such as IT, nursing, etc.

The key for the future will be specialization in specific fields. While specialization has always been important, I think that its importance will drastically increase in the future, much more so than what we currently see today.

 

graduate school "expensive"?

Roy Savia wrote:

> Attending graduate school is a very time consuming and
> expensive proposition.

"Expensive"? Maybe I'm out of it, but when I did my Master's degree in Canada about 10 years ago, the students weren't paying their own way -- they either had NSERC scholarships from the Canadian government, or were being paid as research assistants out of their professors' grants.

Of course, I should avoid the "broken window fallacy": if they weren't in grad school, what they were doing instead might have brought them much more money. Still, grad school was cheap compared to undergrad school, where the students were paying their own way.

 

Re: Specialized Degrees for the Future!

Well said.

 

But they're good indicators. Please let me know what would mean a person has "valid knowledge," short of simplying agreeing with you.

"Valid knowledge"? As opposed to invalid knowledge, I guess.

No harm meant. I'm just kidding around....

 

Unfortunately it's a law of nature: If we make education available to everyone, then education will no longer define the elite.

But even if extending educational opportunity to everyone doesn't make everyone superior, it will definitely make them better educated.

 

Re: Specialized Degrees for the Future!

Another trend I am seeing is that specialization has become so prevalent, that some organizations are offering certificates and certifications as "generalists" I found that kind of interesting.