Why the diploma mill bashing?

I am sure that this will result in heated posts but I am curious to know of why there is such bashing of what people tend to call diploma mills?

From where I stand unless they claim that these degrees are as good and usable as RA and other accredited degrees, and especially if they have a disclaimer that they are not meant to be such, then there is nothing wrong with what they are doing; and not simply using the purchase of "bogus" degree as a novelty. Most of these "colleges" say that are there to educate in whatever form or recognize previous education (traditional and life-experience)...nothing wrong with that. Most college do not say they are preparing people for jobs because that would get them in legal trouble...they are there to educate.

Who would be more wrong in this instance...I create the Menger College of economics that is not accredited by anyone and teach students courses in economics that have not been disproved and give them a degree after they complete the courses or prove they already understand the materials. Now...what if I went to Harvard in the 1970's and got a degree in economics and during the '70's it is known that Keynesian economics was by and far the most taught...but since (and even before), almost ALL of Keynesian economics has been proven wrong and even harmful. So which degree and school should be bashed?

 

troll 1. v.,n. [From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames; or, the post itself.

From The New Hacker's Dictionary

 

I'm sure that there are some legitimate "start up" schools that have yet to submit their applications for RA. I have nothing against these schools. In fact, I encourage them to pursue RA. However, the schools in question are those that have been incorporated for the sole purpose of making money.

The internet has become a haven for such schools. Awarding a degree for "life experience" doesn't make sense. There are thousands of people out there who cannot read or write yet have degrees. Just because they have several years of work experience performing some arduous task doesn't qualify them for a degree.

Education is another issue. A "diploma mill" is in the business of selling diplomas and not providing education. If the Menger College of Economics had an established program that included readings, assignments, tests, feedback from professors and followed some form of syllabus (for each required course), then perhaps your school would have a good chance for candidacy from DETC or a RA agency. As it stand right now, your school falls into one of the two following categories:
(1) unaccredited
(2) diploma mill

 

It's not the education, it's the degree. Educate whomever you want. But awarding degrees is different. If your degree program and school was peer reviewed, subject to standards set by other colleges and universities, and it was found to be worthy, fine. (That's called "accreditation," by the way.) But if you create your own school without the accepted norms of approval (accreditation in the U.S., approval by central governments in most of the world), don't expect anyone to take your school or the degrees it issues seriously. What's to stop you from creating a school and issuing degrees without all that terrific instruction? That's called a diploma mill. What would distinguish your school from a diploma mill? How would employers or other schools know whether or not you were legitimately instructing your students, or just handing out degrees?

Expect your students to find their degrees worth far less than those from properly accredited schools.

Again, that assurance is provided by acceptance of the school into its nation's higher education system, and the recognition of that fact by other colleges and universities around the world. In the U.S., recognized accreditation is that standard.

(BTW, the successes or failures of Keynesian economics can be debated in real schools. No need for a dogmatic approach.)

 

Very interesting. To judge the utility of these "bogus" degrees or "diploma mills" from a positive position would not be correct because that would assume that accreditation is the correct usage of a college and that it is to prepare people for jobs in the marketplace and therefore colleges work for employers. It also places the importance on the tangible (the degree..piece of paper with pretty writing). Is not a degree merely tangible recognition of an intangible good obtained (knowledge)?

I am curious as to when employers lost the responsibility of selecting their candidates themselve and it fell on the colleges and gov't? Yes accreditation help employers a lot in weeding out people but that is a benefit of accreditation not the purpose otherwise accreditation would be developed by, run by, and financed by profit seeking firms.


"(BTW, the successes or failures of Keynesian economics can be debated in real schools. No need for a dogmatic approach.)" is not agruing in this position position not dogmatic in itself? I know of many real schools and institutions that would debate in line with what I posit.

Remember, universities started as religous institutions used mainly for religious teaching purposes...they were not gov't sanctioned, not accredited, and did not operate for the benefit of profit seeking firms. So it appears that the cart is being put infront of the horse...degrees, accreditation, gov't sponsorship, profit seeking firms looking to universities for potential employees came AFTER the appearance of the university. So how could these 'bogus' degrees and diploma mills be wrong when it is the responsibility of the person hiring the people to make sure they have that skill or knowledge (unless the person buys a piece of paper 'bogus degree', presents it as having the knowledge (not the degree) but does not have the knowledge) and is everyone so all-knowing as to know how these things will be used in the future? I sure am not!

 

The degree is a representation of those skills and knowledges. When that degree comes from an unrecognized source, how is an employer to know if it represents real knowledge and skills?

If schools issue credentials, then the schools need to operate at a sufficient level. Largely, that assurance is provided by the schools' proper recognition. In the U.S., that's accreditation. Sorry, but those are the facts. You might not like it, but they don't change because you don't.

 

I need a degree in economics. Hum, do I accept the offer from Harvard, or do I attend the more up-to -date Menger College of Economics?

 

That depends. If you're looking for a piece of paper to cover a hole in the wall, then any unaccredited DL school will do.

 

I'm planning to wall paper my bathroom this summer. What does the Menger College of Economics diploma look like?

 

Three questions for Menger from a very large number that I could ask, based on my archives.

How would you feel if was your daughter that died when taken off insulin by an "MD" in North Carolina who had purchased his degree from a British mill called Metropolitan Collegiate.

How would you feel if a loved one died in a car accident caused by allegedly faulty brakes, and when it came to trial, the "expert witness" hired by the car company, who assured the jury that the fault was with the driver, had as his only degree an engineering Master's purchased from Columbia State University.

How would you feel if a close relative was being treated at the large and busy sex therapy clinic run by high school dropout Dr. Russo who bought his Ph.D. for $100 from Universal Life University.

And on and on and on and on.

 

<<I'm planning to wall paper my bathroom this summer. What does the Menger College of Economics diploma look like?>>


__________________
plumbdog


Is there not a more appropriate bathroom use for the aforementioned paper?

 

After sneezing? No, probably not.

 

And this is the reason why our tax paying dollars go to government agencies that hire committees to research applicants to throw out those with bogus degree applicants. I guess it creates jobs, but what a joke!!

This can't be a true opinion - it is OK to have degree mills, because employers should do their homework..... am I on candid camera?

 

Darn! Caught again!!

 

Lets not forget that many professions in USA are regulated and
License is required.
In USA University degree is required in order for a person who wishes to practice medicine or law, or civic engineering to be eligible for licensing exams.

The tests are so rigorous and difficult that many with proper degrees and education fail first time.
My friend with MD education from Ukraine and 10 years experience there as a MD had very hard time with passing the general medicine tests in USA.
It took him 4 years to become a licensed MD in USA, he is now working in major hospital in USA.

I'm very happy that this system of QA exists.

A person may forget what he learned in school some 20 years ego
That person will not loose his degree but if he forgets to perform he may loose his license.

For example teacher credential requires teachers constantly engage in continuing education.

My point is that person with bogus degree most likely will fail in taking license
exam. Unless he is Leonardo DE Caprio in Catch me if you can movie.

Mikhail

 

Frank Abagnale

Frank Abagnale did pass the bar exam, but only on his third attempt. Getting his medical licence was easy -- they didn't ask him any medical questions, just general chitchat about where he had gone to medical school, interned, etc.

 

One of the delightful pastimes I find on this forum is deciding whether some of the posts are made by trolls, degree-mill-con-artists, victims-of-fraud-that-are-in-deep-denial or just confused-individuals. I'm not saying that it really matters which one is which but just that it can be entertaining trying to make up my mind.

 

Frank Abagnale
Frank Abagnale did pass the bar exam, but only on his third attempt. Getting his medical licence was easy -- they didn't ask him any medical questions, just general chitchat about where he had gone to medical school, interned, etc.

This was many years ego, today this is not possible.
In my humble opinion.

Mikhail

 

There have also been cases where people with accredited degrees have failed miserably on their GMAT or LSAT test. In some cases, they have had to write the test several times before getting an acceptable mark. I would be curious to see just how well someone with an unaccredited or bogus degree does in comparison to other candidates?

 

Some insight to this is available from California Bar Examination statistics, which split out the results from accredited, unaccredited, and correspondence (also unaccredited) programs.