Touro University - AACSB acceditation.

Does anybody have first hand information about Touro's efforts to attain AACSB accreditation?
Will they be able to get it ?

 

AACSB Accreditation for TUI

Hi manjuap,

I was told that it will be few years before TUI can qualify for the AACSB accreditation. In addition, they will also need to change their curriculum to be more technical oriented.

 

I have contacted both TUI and AACSB. Here is what I was told:

AACSB: Currently they are not in the process for accreditation.

TUI: One prereq. is a graduating class, which is being obtained this spring, then the plan to start the process.

Both AACSB and TUI said the accreditation process will take from 1 to 5 years to obtain.

 

Here is a copy of the conversation I had with an official at Touro:

Dear Mr. Cross:



There was some inadvertent miscommunication here.



We will be eligible to apply for AACSB accreditation when we graduate our first group of Ph.D. candidates. We already surpass all AACSB standards and will receive accreditation several years after our initial application.



We will not have the problems that most universities have as we already surpass all standards.



I hope this clarifies the situation.



Best regards,



Dr. Koester



-----Original Message-----
From: Darren [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 3:59 PM
To: Dr. Robert Koester
Subject: AACSB



Dr. Koester,



I am starting your PhD program I March. During one of my routine calls to your campus yesterday, I inquired about TUI's achieving AACSB Accreditation. The young lady indicated that the PhD Program WOULD receive accreditation as soon as it graduates its first class. Considering the biases that I have observed, I find that difficult to believe. There are many schools that are actively trying to earn this accreditation without success, and It usually takes years. Do you guys really feel that you will achieve accreditation that soon?



Regardless, I will be attending and graduating for Touro. I am extremely excited about the prospect of you guys achieving AACSB accreditation. If the information I got was wrong, can you tell me your expectations with regard to TUI's intentions and likelihood of receiving accreditation? How long do you think it will take?



Any information you can provide is greatly appreciated.





Respectfully,



Darren Cross

 

Just as a side note, make sure to check with the reps directly on anything you read on their (AACSB) sites, they have many errors and it is not updated very often, or check with the schools directly on programs offered.

 

Manjunath --

You may already be familiar with this resource, but just in case, I can wholeheartedly recommend the MBA profiles on Jonnie's Distance Learning Page (and he's now in the process of adding AACSB flags):
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Haven/2386/dlmba.html
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Haven/2386/dlmba2.html


Cheers,

 

I can't speak to your first question, but I can to your second questions. Last December I spoke with NSU's business school dean about obtaining AACSB accreditation. He has been active in AACSB for several years and had some good insights.

One key point - AACSB doesn't accredit at the doctoral level. They focus on undergraduate and MBA level.

His answer for NSU was in essance (and I believe the same is true for TUI), "Sure, you can earn AACSB accreditation, it isn't rocket science. The requirements are pretty straight forward. But what changes will it take? Can you live with a lower enrollment and / or having to hire a lot more full-time faculty?"

The key issue the dean saw was AACSB's expectation of 50% of the credit hours being taught by full time faculty. AACSB has talked about alternatives - like having adjuncts do more than simply teach courses (participate in curriculum development, research, etc.). But so far, they've stuck to this expectation.

In NSU's case the economics simply didn't work. Will TUI be able to economic sense out of this requirement? I have my doubts.

However, I'm curious to see how TUI fairs. Realize that they have a long road to go. Other schools have tried and failed to obtain AACSB accreditation.

If TUI suceeds - it will be a good day for DL.

Regards - Andy

 

Actually, I think the credit hour thing will be the least of their problems........technically. The problem is, I think they have a way around the problem that impacts quality. At this point, the have full time faculty for all classes. But, these profs teach 30 and 40 classes at a time. My impression, however, is that there is a graduate assistant for each undergrad and masters level class, so even the though the prof is teaching, the GA is assisting. Profs conentrate on PhD level courses. This isn't very different from many AACSB schools except for the number of classes taught. So long as this is not a problem, the economics will work out fine. In a class that generates $40,000 they pay a GA $1500.

This is confusing, but it seems TUI is trying to do everything to prepared fo AACSB. even if they don't accredit the doctoral level, it will help.

 

I'd like to echo Andy's observations regarding the downside to AACSB accreditation. A less-flexible curriculum and the reliance on more full-time faculty are the two largest impacts on a business school. These two are anathema to any school or program that focuses itself on the mid-career adult learner, or programs wishing to take advantage of instructors who have real-world, real-time experience in the fields in which they work and teach.

 

Perhaps this works, but AACSB may present some challenges. For example, the current AACSB standards say:

" One FTE for each 400 undergraduate
student credit hours per
term, and
· One FTE for each 300 graduate
student credit hours per term."

With a faculty load of 30-40 classes - can TUI meet this?

Regards - Andy

 

Where did you get the idea that they have 30-40 classes each?

Take another look at the home page. They have 40 "core" faculty and over 75 "adjunct" faculty. For your statement to be true, they would have to have 1200-1600 classes just for the core faculty.
That's not realistic.

It appears that they teach around 250 classes. In other words, a little over 6 classes per "core" faculty member. Lets say the adjunct faculty facilitates 1 class each = 75. So, that leaves 175 for the core faculty. Then they have 4 or 5 classes each. Even if we assume that only 75% (30) of the core faculty actually teach, that's still only 5 or 6 classes each.

Whew.

Will Touro University be AACSB accredited? I don't know and quite frankly, it is not something I'm very concerned about. If this is of great concern to you, then by all means keep searching for a school that better meets your needs.

People need to realize that a degree from TUI may not be perceived as equivalent to a degree from a brick and mortar EVEN IF both schools are AACSB accredited. If you want to work at an AACSB brick and mortar school, then you need to attend an AACSB brick and mortar school. If you want to teach DL, then attend a DL school.

I'm not saying that a degree from TUI is inferior to other degrees; I'm merely saying that it doesn't matter. Perception is reality in many cases. If a college is hiring a new faculty member, they will set criteria for hiring. Each school is different - some regard DL as a farce. Some think it's great and will hire you because you have experience with DL.

Figure out what you want to do, then select the appropriate school; don't expect the school to adapt to what each student perceives. They're interested in what the everyone wants collectively.

Just my $0.02.

 

GBrown - I have to agree totally with you regarding perception. DL is acceptable in some places, but not others. No matter what we say in this NG, there are some folks in the academic world that don't accept DL as valid.

As for the course load business - I saw the 30-40 courses in a prior comment. Thank you for your clarification.

But one further point. The normal teaching load in an AACSB school is 6 or fewer courses PER YEAR. You say that TUI faculty teach 5-6 courses - but is this per term? Or per year?

I realize that Touro uses a grad assistant approach in some of their courses - but how AACSB will view their faculty loads will be interesting to see.

Regards - Andy

 

Andy,

Per term. For annual, multiply by four - they have four terms each year. I didn't realize AACSB did it that way. Interesting.

So, four terms per year and four credit hours per class:

4*4*5 = 80 hours per year (5 classes per term)
4*4*6 = 96 hours per year (6 classes per term)

Well under the limits from your previous post.


Gary

 

Gary - I'm not sure we're communicating here. A faculty load of 80 credit hours per year would be considered a "crushing" load at most institutions, particularly if there are research expectations. 15-18 credit hours per year at a semester based school (or 27 credit hours at a quarter hour school) would be more normal.

Further, the ratio I posted from the AACSB site:

"One FTE for each 300 graduate student credit hours per term."

Would appear to be lower than TUI's load. If a faculty member teaches 20 credit hours per term - and has an average class size of 25 students, that's 500.

Worse yet is the matter of preps. If a faculty member is teaching four different courses - the TUI load is expecially heavy.

Finally, most faculty (and I suspect AACSB) would expect that one of the four terms a year would be a term off.

Regards - Andy

 

I don't think that is the norm, and the number may even be exxagerated, but I get the imprssion that it is more than normal. I am not sure where I got that number. Your analysis makes sense. It also gives me confidence that AASCB it possible.

Re: the DL issue, it seems that almost every school has an online component. It will be a huge part of academia one day. the gamble is, do you pick the school that will generate a good reputataion. I think TUI is a good bet. They seem to involved in everything that a traditional school is.

Oh well. SOrry bout the misinfo

 

I wanted to add that acouple of things should be considered in GBrown's calculation:


1st- The adjuncts are not there to teach, but rather to serve as dissertation committee members.

2nd- Although there are certain number of courses offered, there are sometimes offered more than once. Right now, I am GAing 2 classes with the same name.

 

Andy and Darren,

Thanks for your response. You're right, I misunderstood the AACSB requirements. If you take into consideration the number of students as you describe, TUI is WAY over. I am one of three GAs for ITM 501 and I have 83 students. So there are probably 250 students in that one class. 250 *4 = 1000 student credit hours. And that's just one course for one term.

I also didn't realize that adjunct faculty are only dissertation committee members. That changes things significantly.

Thank you for clearing it up.

Take it easy,
Gary